--------------------------------- [Image] Helicopter Goes Down in Southern Lebanon - 5 U.N. Troops Killed Beirut, Lebanon -- A U.N. helicopter belonging to the Italian air force crashed Wednesday in the Israeli-occupied area of sou- thern Lebanon, a U.N. spokesman said. There were a "number of casualties," said Timur Goksel, a spokes- man for the peacekeepers, without providing details. Israel's army radio said all five people riding in the helicopter were killed. Their nationalities were not released. The helicopter was one of several used by the peacekeeping force, Lebanese security officials said on customary condition of anonymity. The cause of the crash was not immediately known. U.N. authorities lost contact with the helicopter about 15 min- utes after it took off on a routine training mission, the officials said. It was believed to have crashed around 9:15 p.m. near the village of Tebnine, about 15 miles east of Tyre, they said. The 4,500-man force, known formally as the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon, polices the border area between Lebanon and Israel. With contingents from nine countries, the force is often caught in the middle of fighting between Lebanese guerrillas and Israeli and allied forces. More than 200 U.N. peacekeepers have been killed since U.N. peacekeepers were deployed in southern Lebanon in 1978. -------------------------------------------------------- --- DB 1.39/004487 * Origin: Volunteer BBS (423) 694-0791 V34+/VFC (1:218/1001.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: ECC00004 Date: 08/07/97 From: TONY PATON Time: 08:30am \/To: JACKSON HARDING (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Flight 711 -=> Quoting Jackson Harding to Tony Paton <=- JH> on take off. Actually why his ADF and mag compass played up I think JH> was far more complicated than protrayed, but on the whole the film was JH> close to the magazine articles I read. This was nearly 20 years ago JH> (that I read them) so I'm afraid I can't give you much more than that. That's fine, thanks anyway! \ ------------ >-==- TONY PATON / ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Computropolis Interactive Net Server +612-9545-0186 (3:712/407) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: ECC00005 Date: 08/07/97 From: CHRISTOPHER TARANA Time: 01:28am \/To: JAY HANIG (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: AIRCRAFT CARRIERS CIRCA -=> Quoting Jay Hanig to Jim Dawson <=- JD> BT-13s used in the movie "Tora, Tora, Tora." It was painted the JH> I thought they used highly modified T-6s for that movie. I thought that was the case as well. The BT-13's have a longer nose like the Japanese A6M2, but they all have fixed gear as far as I know. The Harvard has a shorter nose, but it's got the retractable's needed to simulate a Zero. On the other hand, weren't both the Japanese Kates and Vals both fixed gear also? Christopher ... Taglines are irrelevant. You will be assimilated into the Blue Wave. --- PCBoard/2 15.30 * Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: ECD00000 Date: 08/08/97 From: MARK FOSTER Time: 09:45pm \/To: TONY PATON (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Flight 711 <- Tony Paton talked to Mark Foster, and Look What Happened! -> MF> Greetings! I remember that movie.. loved it ;) Esp. Since i'm a MF> native Aucklander... TP> haha Pity it was filmed on the Gold Coast at Movie world! Yeah.. mind you, ive been to Movie World.. its not a bad setup ;) MF> Umm ill see if I can dig anything up tho I doubt it...... 23 hours? I MF> dont remember it being that long... TP> It seems too long. It is,... I havnt found much this way - dont know where to look to be honest - but I bet it was just done for the dramatics of it ;) MF> But as a matter of interest, what kind of Cargo capacity in an MF> Agwagon? Could it have been used for auxillary fuel? TP> They would of used the hopper for aux fuel but I'm just asking if TP> you filled it up could you get 23 hours? Most likely not, I'd wager. <----------------- Mark Foster, Moderator NZ_AMRAD ------------------> | blakjak@ihug.co.nz - ZL1VMF - "Prepare for War, Strive for Peace" | <---------- SysOp, Sidewinder BBS, 3:772/210 @ fidonet.org ----------> ... Freedom rings where opinions clash. ~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR] --- Squish/386 v1.11 * Origin: Sidewinder! Your Military Info BBS. 649-267-3546 (3:772/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: ECD00001 Date: 08/08/97 From: MARK FOSTER Time: 09:45pm \/To: DAVE BARRON (Read 0 times) Subj: Black Box to Cops? <- Dave Barron talked to Mark Foster, and Look What Happened! -> MF> MF>Recently a court in New Zealand decreed that the Black Box Recording of MF> MF>a domestic crash a couple of years ago be given over to the police or MF> yeah.. well suffice to say local pilots arent amused. DB> How beautifully phrased! It does have a twist, doesnt it? :) MF> DB> That's just my view, but it's the opinions of those who sit at the MF> DB> pointy end that really count. ;-) MF> Yep... Hmmm must ask some pilot friends.. none fly commercial tho, just MF> private stuff. DB> And I thought it was only the UK that created counter-productive DB> policies. Whoops... Forgot about VK-land. Who you calling a VKer???? SCUUUUSE ME this is ZK-ZM thank you! (Look at my callsign on the sig) DB> [Manchester (UK) crash landing] DB> Yesterday, a pilot landed an ATP turboprop without the port landing DB> gear lowered. The landing was perfect with the wing tipping over as the DB> plane became stationary. Of 70 passengers, two minor injuries from DB> escape shutes and one with a weak heart treated for shock. British DB> Airways grounded its ATPs some years ago following a problem with a DB> valve in the landing year. It's not thought the cause is related. Watched this on the News. a DAMNED good landing by that pilot. DB> A twin engine Cessna also made a crash landing in Herefordshire having DB> had a major fire on board. 3 dead and one critical at last count. Seems to be the season for air accidents. Korean one on Guam, and a cargo plane in Florida.... <----------------- Mark Foster, Moderator NZ_AMRAD ------------------> | blakjak@ihug.co.nz - ZL1VMF - "Prepare for War, Strive for Peace" | <---------- SysOp, Sidewinder BBS, 3:772/210 @ fidonet.org ----------> ... Law of Combat: You are not Superman. ~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR] --- Squish/386 v1.11 * Origin: Sidewinder! Your Military Info BBS. 649-267-3546 (3:772/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: ECD00002 Date: 08/07/97 From: JIM SANDERS Time: 01:40pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: News-655 missing pows Washington ------ The Air Force had indications that dozens of missing American airmen were alive in Chinese or North Korean prisons two years after the Korean War, according to a newly declassified report. The report provides new details about how many men were left behind even after the exchange of prisoners and who these Americans were. It also describes a dramatic failed attempt to rescue five members of a B-29 bomber crew shot down six months before the war ended in July 1953. The report, labeled "secret," said the five "were known to be alive in communist hands as of the close of the Korean conflict." 389 Men Unaccounted For The five never returned. Their names_and most of the others mentioned in the newly released Air Force intelligence report_are on a Defense Department list of 389 men from all services who are unaccounted for from the war and about whom the U.S. government believes China or North Korea had information. Both China and North Korea maintain they withheld no American POWs from the war. Chinese troops fought the war on North Korea's side against the U.S.-led United Nations forces. China took control of the prisoner-of-war camps in North Korea in 1951, and in some cases transferred U.S. POWs to China for interrogations. Compelling but unsubstantiated reports have emerged in recent months suggesting a small number of U.S. servicemen from the war may still be in North Korea. For the first time since the end of the war, North Korea has begun addressing the issue. It has agreed to discuss cases of missing servicemen, and it is allowing Pentagon investigators this summer to search areas of the country where remains of American servicemen are believed to be buried. On Monday, North Korean soldiers handed over four sets of remains believed to be those of American soldiers. Some Information Sketchy The declassified Air Force report, dated Oct. 19, 1955, and prepared by the Escape and Evasion Section of the 6004th Air Intelligence Service Squadron, offers no proof that any of the 137 men it mentions were still alive then; most of the cases were based on sketchy information from repatriated POWs, enemy propaganda broadcasts and intelligence sources in North Korea. The report was declassified on June 5 and is on file at the National Archives. It describes the 137 men as Air Force MIAs who "may possibly be alive or may have been alive in communist captivity at one time" during the war. The strongest statement in the report pertains to the case of the five B-29 crew members: 1st Lt. Gilbert L. Ashley Jr., Airman 2nd Class Hidemaro Ishida, 1st Lt. Arthur R. Olsen, 2nd Lt. John P. Shaddick and 1st Lt. Harold P. Turner. Their B-29 was shot down about 10 miles south of Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, on Jan. 29, 1953. Three other B-29s later spotted "what appeared to be a signal" of flashing lights, possibly from the downed airmen, the report said. Daring Rescue Attempt Although the site was behind enemy lines, a rescue attempt was made on May 24. It failed. The pilot of the rescue plane made radio contact with Ashley on the ground as they prepared to pinpoint the airmen's location and arrange a "snatch" pickup in which a harness and cord dropped to the men would be hooked by a cable extended from the rescue aircraft, allowing the men to be reeled in to safety. "The pilot reported that the voice was definitely that of the American who had previously been identified as Lieutenant Ashley," the report said. It said the rescue plane was damaged by machine gun fire, forcing them to abort the mission. "Ashley and four crew members (Turner, Olsen, Shaddick and Ishida) were known to be alive in communist hands as of the close of the Korean conflict, July '53," the report said. It does not say how the Air Force knew this. Was He Still Alive? In his book "Soldiers of Misfortune," journalist Mark Sauter wrote that U.S. intelligence officials received a message, apparently from Ashley's North Korean captors, that was interpreted as confirmation the five were alive as of Aug. 4, 1953. Ashley, of Rock Hall, Md., was 30 years old at the time of his shootdown. Ishida's hometown was listed as Richmond, Calif. Hometowns for the other three crew members could not be determined. Pilots Seen Months After Shootdown The Air Force report also describes the case of Capt. Harold M. Beardall, who went down in North Korea aboard a B-26 bomber on May 21, 1951. It mentions several sightings of Beardall by other American POWs months after the shootdown. Beardall was said to have been "held separately from other Air Force" POWs in North Korea. His name was on Chinese hospital records of officers who were interrogated, it said. "Names of this type we feel are alive," the report says. An unidentified source is quoted in the report as saying Beardall was tried as a war criminal, apparently by the Chinese. Such "trials" were held for many U.S. officers, and their "convictions" used as grounds for refusing to repatriate them. Maj. Kassel M. Keene, for example, who went missing on Nov. 19, 1951, was said to have been sentenced in July 1953 for assaulting a fellow prisoner. "According to the sentence, he was not to be effected (sic) by repatriation," the report said. Some men listed in the Air Force intelligence report were described as having been seen by other American POWs at Kaesong, North Korea, where U.N. prisoners were taken in preparation to be repatriated shortly after the end of the war. ------------------------------------------- --- DB 1.39/004487 * Origin: Volunteer BBS (423) 694-0791 V34+/VFC (1:218/1001.1)