--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00004 Date: 07/18/97 From: JIM COLE Time: 04:52pm \/To: BILL WUNSCH (Read 0 times) Subj: High Speed Landing BW>Greetings, All! BW>In FLYING magazine, there was an article about a DC-9 that landed BW>gear up and took 7000 feet to come to a stop. My question is: How BW>much runway would it have taken to stop if there were BW>wheels underneath? Bill, we used to go into 4800-5000 ft Army strips in the DC9-32F. We had brakes plus reverse and also put it on the numbers. They were probably fast, worried about the touch down, probably had less than full flaps, no drag, floated and 7,000ft was the measured distance when it was all through. Of course you know it is variable totally with weight, density altitude, wind etc. Actually a very good short field airplane with everything working. ___ X CMPQwk 1.4 #1684 X "Do Stalls, whatda ya mean do Stalls"? --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The Politically Incorrect! [OS/2, V34+] (1:106/1010) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00005 Date: 07/18/97 From: TONY PATON Time: 02:21pm \/To: KEITH JILLINGS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: scenario -=> Quoting Keith Jillings to Tony Paton <=- KJ> Tuesday, 8 July 1997 TONY PATON wrote to ALL TP> Two aircraft are above an airfield, they are 172's for arguements TP> sake, they both have an engine failure at the same place. When they TP> get onto finals they find themselves to high. Aircraft A executes a TP> 360 1g turn to lose height, B does a 360 2g turn to lose height. TP> Both have landing config set. Which is safer KJ> I'd have thought both were highly risky. At rate 2, stalling speed KJ> is going to be dangerously high (especially risky without the fan KJ> turning). A 360 would probably also lose more height than you'd KJ> want. KJ> My choice would be to sideslip to lose the height (flaps in first -- KJ> mustn't sideslip a 172 with flaps out). If the plane couldn't do KJ> that for any reason, I'd use S-turns. Thanks Keith for your help. KJ> Greetings from Keith Jillings (2:257/71.10) Is this in the Uk? If so could you give me the address of TRANSAIR pilot shop? Thanks \ ------------ >-==- TONY PATON / ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Computropolis Interactive Net Server +612-9545-0186 (3:712/407) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00006 Date: 07/18/97 From: TONY PATON Time: 02:21pm \/To: JIM DAWSON (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: COMMENTS -=> Quoting Jim Dawson to Jim Sanders <=- JD> I am rather sure that my local library has the Jablonski book. I'll JD> have ot get it. On local radio today, I heard another interesting JD> theory of the cause of the TWA 800 accident: an overheateted brake JD> caused a tire to exploded in the wheel well. Wish I knew more about JD> where the wheel well is in relation to the center fuel tank on the JD> B747. It would be right next to it I'd thought of slightly behind? Didn't a DC-8 crash when an exploded tyre burnt thru the main spar? Back to TWA 800, I saw they are using an Evergreen 747 to simulate the exact situation. I also heard after 800, boeing tested an old 747 in the Mojave. True? \ ------------ >-==- TONY PATON / ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Computropolis Interactive Net Server +612-9545-0186 (3:712/407) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00007 Date: 07/18/97 From: TONY PATON Time: 02:21pm \/To: RICHARD BRICE (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: COMMENTS -=> Quoting Richard Brice to Jim Dawson <=- RB> wants to know I will get the manuals out of my archives. Probably the RB> closest tire is the nose gear. Do you think? I thought the body or wing gear would be closer? \ ------------ >-==- TONY PATON / ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Computropolis Interactive Net Server +612-9545-0186 (3:712/407) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00008 Date: 07/17/97 From: JIM DAWSON Time: 04:24pm \/To: KEN NOTT (Read 0 times) Subj: GREETINGS. Last time i was up to Grey Bull, Wyoming, ( 2 years ago) they had about 5-6 C-119s that appeared to be operational, plus a dozen or more ex-RCAF birds that provide parts. Most of the operational boxcars are ex-RCAF. They have one C-82 euqipped with the jet engine (J-34?) on top that appeared to be operational. The one Lockheed 18?, probably is ex-RCAF. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00009 Date: 07/17/97 From: JIM DAWSON Time: 04:26pm \/To: KEN NOTT (Read 0 times) Subj: WINDMILL STARTS Was the empty cowling faired over? My #1 son has told me of their patrols off the coast of Vietnam while looking for small boats bringing in guns to the Viet Cong that one engine of the P-3 was shut down to stretch fuel. They flew out of Uta-Pao, RTNAF, Thailand. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00010 Date: 07/18/97 From: RICHARD BRICE Time: 08:46am \/To: CHRISTOPHER TARANA (Read 0 times) Subj: TURBO PROPS I think one of the waivers had something to do with VMC and how it was to be handled. It's been a long time. I still have all my manuals on both of them though, course the Manuals don't show the waivers. It was an easy airplane to fly. Felt kind of funny on the controls because of rods instead of cables. In a cross wind landing it was a flat crab because the close proximity of the outboard props to the surface. V2 plus 10 climb was sick. It needed more IAS to get a decent rate of climb. This caused some bad habits and in one case I recall a sad situation. Continental Airlines had an overnight at Amarilla, Texas. The Captains side window was left ajar and it rained that night. On takeoff the next morning they lifted off and in so doing some water ran down from above on the Captains shirt sleeve. He looked down just as he had leveled off to gain some airspeed. This little peek at his shirt sleeve allowed the aircraft to settle back to the runway surface and grind the prop tips. Well that was the end of the flight. It caused over temps. and the aircraft came to rest off to the side of the runway. It burned up but all passengers and crew evacuated withour injury. Well it became a sad situation. The Captain had been the son or son-in-law of an Airline that Continental had either merged with or bought out at some previous time and the Captain was not in the best of graces with Continental because of some kind of Management disagreement, etc. To make a long story short, the hassle drug on for several weeks or months and in the end the Captain ended up committing suicide. All over a bad procedure that was allowed to develop by the Training Dept. on the Airline. Everyone knew about the level off to gain airspeed. It was an accident waiting to happen. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00011 Date: 07/18/97 From: JIM DAWSON Time: 10:12am \/To: ELVIS HARGROVE (Read 0 times) Subj: ACADEMY CRASH The Super 21 Mooney was the same was to the extent that in a heavy rain, you oculd plan on loosing the radios and get wet feet. Heavy applications of zinc chromate putty helped but never cured. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00012 Date: 07/17/97 From: JIM SANDERS Time: 12:47pm \/To: JIM DAWSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Twa 800 Jim, Instead of narrowing down the possible csauses, they seem to be adding to them... One article I saw said there were now SIX possible causes. Strike by a meteorite was now added. 8 years of flying B-52s, I know of no fuel explosions. The only losses we had was the first Arclight mission on which the 20th BS lost two due to stupidity. Borgeson almost lost one in a hail/thunderstorm right off the end of the runway at Carswell but saved it... I have lost confidence in our Bureaucrats. I need you new E-Mail address but do not put it here. I want to send you some pictures. Jim --- DB 1.39/004487 * Origin: Volunteer BBS (423) 694-0791 V34+/VFC (1:218/1001.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBN00013 Date: 07/18/97 From: ROBERT LINENWEBER Time: 10:48pm \/To: JIM COLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Single Engine Go Arounds In a message to Jim Dawson <07-12-97 22:57> Jim Cole wrote: JC> for knowing that it was the #1 and not #2. I know you thought what JC> you saw was correct but knowing Boeing Procedure I know it to be JC> about 98% #1 engine used and for the reasons stated. This is the very JC> reason things get so screwed up in the newspapers in that reporters JC> and newspapers and eye witnesses all give different accounts JC> of what they JC> thought they saw. "Airplane stalled and FELL out of the Sky" I once heard an investigator say he would much rather investigate an accident without witnesses because he felt he could do it better with just the wreckage. I have to admit to seeing this in myself. When I was going through a safety officer course we were shown a film of a crash. Then we completed a test with a series of questions about the crash. I started by getting the color of the airplane wrong and it went downhill from there. . ... There is safety in numbers - Participate in the "Wings" Program! --- QuickBBS 2.81 Ovr * Origin: FAA ASO-FSDO-15 BBS / Orlando, Florida (1:363/275)