--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00001 Date: 07/08/97 From: JIM DAWSON Time: 03:59pm \/To: ELVIS HARGROVE (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: ACADEMY CRASH Yes, I would guess that the Stearmans got their new mills from the BT-13s and also from some shoddy Beech 18s. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00002 Date: 07/08/97 From: JIM DAWSON Time: 04:00pm \/To: BILL WUNSCH (Read 0 times) Subj: ICE PROTECTION I suspect it was just a "Too simple" solution with little chance for profit. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00003 Date: 07/08/97 From: JIM DAWSON Time: 04:04pm \/To: RICHARD BRICE (Read 0 times) Subj: CRASH REPORT UAL at Portland, Oregon was somewhat different in that they used up the fuel while circling and then ran out of fuel short of the runway and also SAS at LAX when they hit the water while messsing with a nose gear problem. I watched that one being towed in the next day from the beach at SMO. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00004 Date: 07/08/97 From: RICHARD BRICE Time: 08:16pm \/To: JIM DAWSON (Read 0 times) Subj: CRASH REPORT Yes, the Portland accident was uncalled for. The deadheading Captain on the jump seat was also a DC-8 Captain and about to retire. He kept telling the Captain (along with the 2nd/O) they were about out of fuel, but to no avail. This dead heading Captain was Duke Garrett, I'll never forget him either. When he was on the DC-7 he took me off the runway twice in a row with an engine cut after V-1. I was the observor and Ed Cullerton was the Check Airman. We were using 8-R and about opposite of Stanley Aviation Ed cut No. 1 and Garrett didn't catch it in time and neither did Cullerton. Ed jerked it in the air and we went around and landed and tried it again. Same thing happened on the second try. After a Guy fails to do it right on the first try and then gets a second shot at it after discussion, you would think he would be ready for it. As you know, this maneuver has always been a sore spot with me. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00005 Date: 07/08/97 From: JIM DAWSON Time: 09:03pm \/To: RICHARD BRICE (Read 0 times) Subj: CRASH REPORT Rightly so as it is a situation that can and does occur in line flying too. The UAL type that hard landed the B727 at SLC and drove the main gear into the fuel lines lives afew blocks from me. Never see anybody out in the yard. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00006 Date: 07/08/97 From: JIM DAWSON Time: 09:05pm \/To: RICHARD BRICE (Read 0 times) Subj: CRASH REPORT Was that the DC-7 that UAL painted white and used for training with no name on it? I had heard that it had a cracked spar? --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00007 Date: 07/09/97 From: JIM COLE Time: 07:38am \/To: JAY HANIG (Read 0 times) Subj: landing the gooney Hi Jay, I don't know how this got turned around but will try to clarify. JH>08 Jul 97 08:13, Jim Cole wrote to Jim Sanders: JH> JC> I still content that this was the squirelest landing airplane JH> JC> that I had experience with. You got experience in the best with JH> JC> the C-45 and T-11. I read the other day that they had place a JH> JC> T-11 in a Museum some place but couldn't remember where. I was talking strickly about the C-45/D-18 Beech. JH>I've never flown a gooney....went to the ground school and then my JH>company went belly up....but my dad has a lot of time in them and JH>said they were very forgiving aircraft. I just wonder if JH>that one you had so much trouble with was rigged out of JH>whack or possibly had a dragging brake, etc. That was Jim Sanders that flew with someone that he said almost got it over on it's back. I was disputing that statement and content that the Pilot probably didn't know what he was doing to get into that situation. I never had trouble with the Gooney. My statements all along were the same as your Dad that they were a very forgiving Aircraft and were like a great big "Teddy Bear". JH>Was this your experience in all gooneys, or are you basing JH>your statement on the experience of just that one? I know JH>you have extensive flight experience, but I'm not sure how JH>it's spread around. It's been rumored that you've been JH>flying ever since Moby dick was a minnow. :) Yep! I used to have to get Momma to drive me to the Airport (Just kidding) did ride my Bicycle though. Been all the way from Challenger II UltraLite to Supersonic Fighters and everything in between. Love Aviation and the discussion thereof. So somehow this trouble with the Gooney was directed to me when it was Jim Sanders that had the trouble with it. Thanks for the note Jay and hope to hear from you again....Jim..... ___ X CMPQwk 1.4 #1684 X "Is this Airline Bidness great or what"? --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The Politically Incorrect! [OS/2, V34+] (1:106/1010) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00008 Date: 07/09/97 From: JIM COLE Time: 07:47am \/To: JAY HANIG (Read 0 times) Subj: Flying the Gooney In fact Jay here is the message I sent to Jim Sanders. JS>JC>I didn't find that the case with the Gooney as I thought it was JS>JC>one of the most docile aircraft that I have flown. I certainly do JS>JC>agree with you on the others the only one of which I flew was the JS>JC>C-45/D-18S. JS> I have been in some pretty rough landings in the C-47. A fine pilot JS> almost put us upside down landing at Mitchel one night. Jim, it's so hard for me to believe that a good pilot could do as you describe above. Not saying it can't be done just hard to believe that a Good Pilot would end up in that situation. I found it to be one of the easiest and most responsive machines that I have ever had the pleasure of flying. I remember when I checked out the old Gentleman in the left seat turned on to base brought the props up to 2,000 RPM turned to final, brought it back to 15 inches, rolled the trim wheel back a couple of turns and commenced to pack his pipe for the long smooth decent on the GCA. It was a real arm chair aircraft. I remember one night at Chatareoux (sp) France I landed in a 20 something kt direct cross wind and it was my first PIC trip and the upwind engine was about 15 inches and the downwind was at idle til I got the tailwheel on the ground. The only time I think that you should have problems with control of the machine. ___ X CMPQwk 1.4 #1684 X Help stamp out Fixed Wing!!! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The Politically Incorrect! [OS/2, V34+] (1:106/1010) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00009 Date: 07/09/97 From: ELVIS HARGROVE Time: 01:13pm \/To: JIM DAWSON (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: ACADEMY CRASH -> Yes, I would guess that the Stearmans got their new mills from the -> BT-13s and also from some shoddy Beech 18s. And I know of at least one Lockeed 10 that donated its engines to dusters. But as best I know, NObody loved the Vultee Vibrators. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: EBE00010 Date: 07/09/97 From: RICHARD BRICE Time: 08:37am \/To: JIM DAWSON (Read 0 times) Subj: CRASH REPORT Do you mean the Captain? --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)