--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFL00001 Date: 11/16/97 From: CHRIS MADDOCK Time: 12:10pm \/To: MIKE BILOW (Read 3 times) Subj: Bridges and routers On 14 Nov at 18:02, Mike Bilow of 1:323/107 wrote to Chris Maddock: MB> Chris Maddock wrote in a message to Mike Bilow: CM>> Second try. I'll get it right (I hope) this time. :) MB> I've got it now. CM>> I wondered if you have had anything to do with any of the CM>> "software" bridges and routers that were available. MB> I've used PC Route, but it was a long time ago. Of course, I am one of the MB> developers associated with KA9Q NOS, and many people used that as a router. Aha! PCROUTE ! I had a look at PCBRIDGE and the program wouldn't work at all. :( CM>> I have a Bridgit! bridge at work and there used to be others CM>> that were available. CM>> The Bridgit! bridge works great for me. Two versions, local CM>> coax/coax bridge and a coax/modem bridge to another office. CM>> Runs on a 286/16. MB> I've never used Bridgit!, and I see little value these days in having MB> software that will run on a 286. I don't have a problem with software that MB> requires a 386 as a minimum machine, and that is a huge jump in capability MB> that buys you an enormous amount for what today costs nothing. Generally true. But for an application like a bridge it is fine. It does however work much better on a 386. CM>> I tried one of the shareware ones but couldn't get the CM>> software to load. CM>> Do you know of any that have been developed and can you CM>> recommend any ?? MB> I haven't seen anyone try to make serious use of bridging in years. The MB> only real benefit to bridging over routing is that the hardware is simpler. MB> In theory, you can bridge/switch prospectively without doing store and MB> forward, but no software bridge/switch does this. Switching has made MB> something of a comeback in order to eliminate store and forward in very MB> high speed situations, as with ATM or IP, but even there it is not MB> mainstream technology. Okay. What about when the bridge uses a serial link (modem) ?? MB> When you can use Linux running on as little as a 386SX to act as a full MB> router for all of the major protocols, including IP and IPX, I just don't MB> see any point to worrying about bridging unless I had some really oddball MB> proprietary protocol that I needed to support. For that matter, I assume MB> Linux could do bridging, but I've never looked into it. I've thought of using Linux. Just haven't really had the need. Or the spare hardware. MB> As I often ask, what is it that you are really trying to accomplish? Bridging two networks via modems. 10MBit each end. 33.6K modems for the link. ISDN here in Oz is way too expensive even though they bought the cost down to a fraction of what it was, otherwise I'd use that. Regards, Chris Maddock chrism@bbs.st.net.au --- Msged/386 4.20 beta 2 * Origin: Diagnostic CBBS - DownUnder - (3:640/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFL00002 Date: 11/15/97 From: LEE ARONER Time: 12:23pm \/To: CHUMA AGBODIKE (Read 3 times) Subj: File server vs Applicatio CA>> On a two node network that I have setup, NT4 server has the Office 97 >> on it. Then I installed the NT WS 4.0 on another and linked the two >> together using 2 NE2000 clones. I was going to install the Office 97 on the >> WKS too, but just decided to try to run the one on the server to see if LA> You were using the NT server as a file server. The "applications" LA> you ran were actually running in the memory address space on the LA> workstation...in fact, what you did is the *definition* of a file LA> server. LA> An application server actually runs the code on the server and LA> sends only minimal data or screen updates back to the LA> workstation. CA> Thanks Lee CA> Can I tell the NT to run the program on the server's memory instead of mine? > Thus the "definition of application server" > Because then I wont need a fast computer as a 3rd station for my wife > who does only WP. A simple 386 with 2 meg ram or so but a good monitor. No, not really, not quite yet. There are versions of some common applications that have been specialy made to allow that sort of thing, but they are too expensive for home or small business usage. There is a client/server environment called Citrix Winframe which would allow you to do this, but the basic package involves a minimum of 15 licenses, requires a LOT of hardware, and costs about $8000.00 US. As Java filters into the mainstream, this sort of idea will become possible, but not yet. You would be much better off to invest $69 in a motherboard that supports the AMD 5x86-133 processor (actually a very fast 486) and put 16 megs of ram on it. You'll get the performance of a pentium-100 for a bit less money, and she'll be able to run any program and do basicly, anything she wants. Your total cost should be in the $120 range. The AMD K5-133 is also quite cheap now, you can get a perfectly good MB with CPU and fan for about $150 right now. It's about 50% faster than the 5x86 mentioned above. LRA -- SPEED 2.00 #2720: All heiresses are beautiful. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Grey Matter * Seattle, WA * 1:343/210 * (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFL00003 Date: 11/15/97 From: LEE ARONER Time: 11:40am \/To: MIKE BILOW (Read 3 times) Subj: IBM name services? LA> With the optional Directory And Security Server (DCE) package, LA> Warp Server has true single log-on capability, and supports the LA> OSF Distributed File System. LA> With DSS, multiple DCE cells obtain Directory and Kerberos LA> security services from a centralized DSS server, located LA> anywhere on the WAN. DSS supports thousands of users. MB> Be aware that DSS is a framework for the implementation of DCE, and that IBM > regards DCE as vendor-independent above DSS. You can use IBM's DCE > implementation above OS/2 DSS, but DSS is not tied to IBM's DCE. I don't know > if anyone other than IBM implements DCE over OS/2 DSS. LA> Without DSS, you have a single DCE cell with a designated LA> Domain controller (and backups), similar to NT. User capacities LA> are slightly higher than NT, except, of course, that Warp LA> Server runs much faster on much less hardware. MB> :-) IBM actually doesn't say anything about that fact. Wonder why? :-) I have a copy of Lan Server 4.0 here that would be perfect for 7/8 of the clown...ah, Lan Administrators I talk to. All the performance they need on a pentium90, instead they always go for the NT and wind up spending 3 times as much on the installation, for half the performance. LRA -- SPEED 2.00 #2720: 665 ...The neighbor of The Beast... --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Grey Matter * Seattle, WA * 1:343/210 * (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFL00004 Date: 11/13/97 From: GEORGE WHITE Time: 10:52am \/To: MIKE BILOW (Read 3 times) Subj: Lan Faq? Hi Mike, You wrote to me: MB>MB>The principal benefit to gold plate is immunity from MB>MB>corrosion. This is essentially unimportant in networking, MB>MB>where currents are negligible. In audio, for example, you MB>MB>might commonly pass tens of amps to a speaker, and MB>MB>corrosion would form a high-resistance spot which would MB>MB>heat up. MB> GW> From my experience in designing high reliability MB> GW> engine/transmission control systems for military MB> GW> applications (everything from milivolt to several amps on MB> GW> the connectors), the advantage of gold is indeed immunity to MB> GW> corrosion, but only during storage! Once a properly designed MB> GW> connector has been mated the existance of the gold plate MB> GW> becomes irrelevant. MB>Keep in mind that we are not necessarily talking about something that weighs MB>only a few grams and which is protected by a plastic shell, MB>which is the usual model in automotive electronics. In a military application it is usually a circular metal shelled connector with a significant weight. They bear no relationship with the connectors we used for commercial automotive applications. MB> In a MB>BNC connector used for networking, the parts are often MB>press-fit and can wobble or rotate freely, often each time MB>the computer or cable is moved or bumped. There's no MB>strain relief on BNC, and even the bayonet locking pins MB>comprise part of the live electrical connection! The MB>practical effect is that the connector is always exposed to MB>corrosion as if it was still in storage. I agree with this, and they are the real weaknesses of the design. The RJ45 connector used in 10BaseT networks is less problematical because although the strain relief of the connector is not particularly good the fact that all the circuits go through the contacts, which distort when mated to give a good electrical connection, means that there are relatively far fewer problems in the field than with the BNC connectors of 10Base2 networks. MB> GW> You have the benefit of gold against current the wrong way MB> GW> round! The higher the current, the less relevant the gold MB> GW> plate becomes (when a high power connector is mated the two MB> GW> mateing parts should distort and cut through the gold plate MB> GW> with the working contact being between the underlying MB> GW> connector materials) MB>Well, yes and no. Yes, an impedance discontinuity can do more damage to a MB>milliamp signal in terms of noise. No, it is usually a MB>much bigger problem if you pass tens of amps through an MB>impedance discontinuity -- because you might start a fire. I agree on both counts, but in my experience high power connectors are better designed/manufactured than low power ones, and the pins/sockets are designed to distort on connection so that a good contact is made. The distortion normally results in the gold film being broken as it is usually only very thin. Off topic aside: In fact the commonest design of high power connector is also about the poorest for electrical contact :-( It's the standard mains connector (despite the differences between countries nearly all of them suffer similar problems)! MB>The gold plate is not cut away on BNC (or most other) MB>systems. Gold is an excellent conductor, and there is no MB>reason to let it be cut away. They are low power systems (BNC should be, I shudder at the thought of using BNC connectors with significant power going through them) and the cost cutting in the production does indeed make the gold essential, especially on the centre (or, for inhabitants of the USA, center) contact and indeed it is usually unaffected by mateing BNC connectors. George * SLMR 2.1a * KEYBOARD - Used to enter errors int a computer. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: DoNoR/2,Woking UK (44-1483-717905) (2:440/4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFL00005 Date: 11/16/97 From: ROBERT RICE Time: 12:47am \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: The Rules * Original Area: NANFE * Original From: Bill White (1:3615/50) * Original To : Franco Rios (1:3615/51) FR> Hello All! FR> Electric Village BBS has joined this echo. FR> Would the Moderator please post the rules? FR> Thank you! FR> - Franco Rios Welcome. North America Native Fish Echo. The Rules and Guidelines for NANFE. Revised: April 29, 1997 All who wish to participate in the North American Native Fish Echomail conference are required to adhere to the following rules and guidelines during participation. Topics. Subjects related to the discussion of North American Native Fish including: equipment, helpful information, plants, trips to collecting sites, trade and sale of native fishes, information concerning the keeping of Native Fish. Articles from American Currents and Darter Newsletter. Experiences in breeding, information concerning maps and plans to collecting sites, rules and regulations by the different States and Counties. Advertising of coming shows, events and/or competitions that include Native Fish. Information dealing and/or relating to the South Florida Aquarium Society, including meetings, publications, reports, etc. Rules. 1 - LET the moderator moderate. 2 - Stay on topic. Do not respond to off-topic messages: let the moderator handle them. 3 - No foul, vulgar, or obscene language will be allowed. 4 - Marketing and advertising commercial services are strictly prohibited. 5 - Moderator rules, guidelines, policies, and actions are NOT to be discussed on the open echo. ALL such discussion *MUST* be in NetMail. Lack of access to NetMail is NOT considered a valid excuse. 6 - Failure to adhere to the rules and guidelines of the echo may be grounds for removal. 7 - Use real names. 8 - Extended characters (often referred to as "High ASCII") will not be permitted in headers, origin lines, signatures, nor to create "cutesy" quote boxes. NEVER use visible low end ASCII characters (1 through 31) ANYWHERE in a FidoNet message. Have Fun and enjoy the Echo. Any comments, request or suggestions concerning the rules or the echo are appreciated, but it must be thru NetMail. Thanks for your cooperation, Bill White Moderator. FIDO: Bill White @ 1:135/110 (Miami) InterNet: bill.white@110.sunshine.com * SLMR 2.1a * I had a life once...now I have a computer and a modem! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Emerald Coast/2 (1:366/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFL00006 Date: 11/17/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 06:45pm \/To: CHUMA AGBODIKE (Read 3 times) Subj: File server vs Application Server Chuma Agbodike wrote in a message to Mike Bilow: CA> Is it built into the application program "to know" when to CA> run on the server. And if the program is not designed as CA> such to run in the work station memory.? No, any network aware program could probably be a server application. If such a program runs on a local machine, it might use a network loopback or similar mechanism provided by the operating system. Mail programs can send mail to themselves, for example. CA> In other words there isn't an option in my NT server (I dont CA> see any) that I can enable: CA> Like click here to enable File Server mode CA> or click here to enable Application server mode. This would be considered specific to each application. If you ran the necessary mail hosting programs on your NT machine (such as Microsoft Exchange), it would be a mail server. If you ran the necessary database programs on your NT machine (such as Microsoft SQL Server), it would be a database server. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFL00007 Date: 11/17/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 06:49pm \/To: CHUMA AGBODIKE (Read 3 times) Subj: File server vs Applicatio Chuma Agbodike wrote in a message to LEE ARONER: CA> Can I tell the NT to run the program on the server's memory CA> instead of mine? Thus the "definition of application server" CA> Because then I wont need a fast computer as a 3rd station CA> for my wife who does only WP. A simple 386 with 2 meg ram or CA> so but a good monitor. This is hard to do with NT, but it is common practice with Unix. For example, an X/Windows program expects to talk to its terminal over a network connection, even when the program and its terminal are actually on the same machine (as they usually are). However, you can split them so that an X/Windows program runs on a fast machine somewhere and talks over a real network to a slower X/Windows terminal, which is what you want to do. Under Unix, by the way, the X/Windows nomenclature is reversed from what you might expect. The X/Windows program running on the fast machine is the "client" which requests services from the X/Windows terminal "server" on the slower machine. This is just a peculiarity of terminology that applies only to X/Windows, where the server is the user side because the terminal performs drawing services on the screen for the client program. To get this kind of capability with NT, you need expensive add-on packages such as Citrix. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFL00008 Date: 11/17/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 06:57pm \/To: BERNHARD KUEMEL (Read 3 times) Subj: optical fiber networks Bernhard Kuemel wrote in a message to Mike Bilow: MB> IP addresses don't cost anything, you know. BK> Where? Over here I have to pay 20 $/month for each extra IP BK> address. This is between you and your provider. IP addresses are created ex nihilo by the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority and assigned by Internic or one its subsidiary registries, in your case RIPE. Technically, you are paying to lease your IP addresses from your provider, who then provides routing services for them. You could get your own IP addresses free of charge, but then your provider would probably not be willing to route for them. If you are a large enough business, then you have the negotiating leverage to make your provider do what you want with whatever addresses you want. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFM00000 Date: 11/17/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 10:22pm \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Micropolis in liquidation: formal announ22:22:4711/17/97 There was some comment on this earlier, but here is the formal announcement. -- Mike xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx MICROPOLIS TO WIND UP The Board of Directors of Micropolis (S) Ltd has decided today to wind up the company. This decision was made after a thorough and comprehensive review of the Company's financial position and market condition. Background In April 1996, Micropolis refocused its business on high-end disk drives, under the new management headed by Dr Joe Chen. In line with the new plans, Micropolis was the first company to ship out the 3.5-inch 9GB drive in October 1996, as part of its new Tomahawk family of enterprise drives. With the launch of the 4GB and 9GB Tomahawk drives, Micropolis rebuilt its monthly revenues to US$40m by December 1996. It was poised to re-establish its niche position as a leading high-end supplier for the enterprise market. By early 1997, R&D was well underway for the new generation of Trident drives, with 9GB and 18/20GB capacities, as the successor to the Tomahawk family. However, 1997 proved to be a very difficult year with the entry of three more major players in the enterprise storage industry. This led to severe price erosion due to excess inventory and capacity. Revenue for the first three quarters of 1997 totalled US$140m, far below the monthly target of US$45m. Margins were insufficient to cover the overheads. Outlook for 1998 is also not expected to improve due to the continued intense competition. Dr Joe Chen, CEO Micropolis, explained, "When we entered the market in early 1996, there were only four players, including ourselves, in the high-end disk drive market. Today, there are at least seven, some of whom are very aggressive. This has led to excess capacity and severe price erosion for the industry. It no longer makes any commercial sense for us to continue." In view of this significant change in the competitive environment, and the deterioration of expected returns from continuing its business, the Board of Micropolis has decided to wind up the Company. Messrs Michael Lim Choo San, Nicky Tan Ng Kuang and Tam Chee Chong have been appointed the Provisional Liquidators. The Liquidators will explore all options including the sale of the whole or part of the business and/or assets and where necessary the carrying-on of operations for the benefit of the company and the creditors. More about the Micropolis Group Founded in 1976, Micropolis is a leading designer and producer of high-end hard disk drives with operations in Singapore, Thailand, USA and Europe. Total staff strength is about 1,300 in Singapore, 700 in Thailand and 300 in USA, plus marketing and sales staff in Europe. Micropolis' business and assets in hard disk drive were acquired by Singapore Technologies in March 1996. It became a wholly-owned independent subsidiary of Singapore Technologies. Released on November 10, 1997 For further information, please contact :- Dr Joe Chen President & Chief Executive Officer Micropolis (S) Ltd Tel No: 4859880 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ON THE LIQUIDATION OF MICROPOLIS With the announcement of the winding up of Micropolis, a number of questions were raised by customers and suppliers. Below are some of the frequently asked questions : - Customers' Questions Q1 I just bought some Micropolis drives. What about warranties? Ans The liquidators will be working out solutions to provide warranty support. Please give them some time to assess the financial position of the company before they get back to you. For further details, please contact liquidator Mr KT Chan at Tel : (65) 330-1241 or fax your queries to Micropolis at Fax : (65) 481-8119. Q2 I have just bought some Micropolis drives. Can I return them? Ans The liquidators are reviewing the situation. Please put your request in writing to the liquidators with the details of your purchase so that the liquidators will be able to decide what is the appropriate action in your case. For further details, please contact liquidator Mr KT Chan at Tel : (65) 330-1241 or fax your queries to Micropolis at Fax : (65) 481-8119. Q3 Micropolis produces excellent drives. Why could it not continue business? Ans Yes, Micropolis has had a niche position as a leading high end producer, known for its innovation and excellence in drive technology. This was the reason why ST thought it would be possible to help turn the company around under a new management team to establish it as a profitable company. However, with the new aggressive players in the high end market in 1997, it is no longer viable for Micropolis to continue its business. Suppliers' Questions Q1 We have outstanding debts with Micropolis. When can we get back our money? Ans If you have any claims with Micropolis, please put your claims in writing with full details and send to Micropolis. The liquidators will assess the claims and respond to you. For further details, please contact liquidator Mr KT Chan at Tel : (65) 330-1241 or fax your queries to Micropolis at Fax : (65) 481-8119. Buyers' Questions Q1 We would like to buy Micropolis drives. Who can we contact? Ans Please contact Micropolis sales manager, Mr Simon Lee at Tel : (65) 9-8192144 or Fax : (65) 482-4193. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EFM00001 Date: 11/16/97 From: JOHN WILLIAMSON Time: 10:16am \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: NEW Hello All I am new to the world of LAN I have set up a small LAN (10 machines) server using 95 and workstations using WFWG Nearly all users are on MS office Pro 4.3 - this should read ALL - here's my problem One of the stations has only a small HD and I want it to run Office direct from the server but I get a bad path warning when trying to access Office Office is set up as shared on the server Any help for this Learner appreciated... TTFN --- * Origin: (2:254/5.17)