--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100002 Date: 05/31/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 07:20pm \/To: JOHN RAMBO (Read 8 times) Subj: Networking 486 es John Rambo wrote in a message to Mike Bilow: -> Buy two NE2000 clone cards, and make sure that they are "combo" cards hich -> have both a BNC coax (10Base-2) and RJ-45 UTP (10Base-T) connector. JR> Why coax? Isn't telephone "clip connectors" easier? For any commercial operation, I would choose UTP. However, a UTP concentrator box is required for more than two nodes, and will cost $60-100 even for the cheapest five-node units. For a very small network of three or four nodes, especially for a home network where a $60 cost is an issue, coax makes better economic sense. JR> Not familiar with this terminology. What does 10Base-T & JR> 10Base-2 mean? These terms come from the IEEE 802.3 standard. Technically, the "10" is the data flow rate in Mb/s, the "Base" means that the signalling is baseband rather than broadband, and the "2" originally referred to the maximum unrepeated cable length in hundreds of meters. As a practical matter, 10Base-2 is "Thin" Ethernet using coax and 10Base-T is "Telephone" Ethernet using unshielded twisted pair (which is not quite the same thing as telephone wire). -> Most newer operating systems support networking directly. OS/2 Warp, -> Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Windows 95, and Windows NT will all support -> SMB/NetBIOS networking and can interoperate with each other over either -> NetBEUI or TCP/IP. Unix, including Linux, supports SMB/NetBIOS over TCP/IP -> using the Samba package or "smbfs" support in the kernel. DOS orkstations -> can act as clients in an SMB/NetBIOS environment using free software -> downloadable from Microsoft, but will need the Microsoft "Workgroup Add-On -> for DOS" (which is not free) in order to act as peer servers. -> If you are using only one Ethernet segment and are not using Unix, then se -> SMB/NetBIOS over NetBEUI. Otherwise, use SMB/NetBIOS over TCP/IP. You ay -> see SMB/NetBIOS networking referred to as the "Common Internet File ystem" -> of "CIFS" lately. JR> Huh? Was planning on running Win95 on one machine, & JR> either DOS or win3.1 on the other. Am I missing something? Yes. Neither DOS nor Windows 3.1x comes with networking support. You can use Windows for Workgroups 3.11 instead of regular Windows, and this is a complete solution. If you are using DOS without Windows, however, then you either have to download the free client-only software or, if you also need DOS peer server capability, buy the Microsoft Workgroup Add-On for DOS. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100003 Date: 05/31/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 07:29pm \/To: JOHN RAMBO (Read 9 times) Subj: Networking 486 es John Rambo wrote in a message to Richard Shiflett: JR> Since phone cords (with the minature clip) are so easily JR> obtained, why don't ntwork interface cards (NE2000?) take them? First of all, regular telephone connectors are RJ-11 type with 4 conductors or, occasionally, RJ-12 type with 6 conductors. 10Base-T networking requires 8 conductors, and therefore uses RJ-45 type connectors. Second, 10Base-T wiring must meet certain requirements ("Category 3") above and beyond that of voice telephone cable ("Category 1") in order to carry the higher bandwidth information. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100004 Date: 05/31/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 07:33pm \/To: ANDREW GRIMSBY (Read 8 times) Subj: network problems Andrew Grimsby wrote in a message to All: AG> Im having a few problems getting a PCI network card to work AG> in my 486, the software keeps saying the Cmos has allocated AG> an invalid IRQ or IO, so I cannot configure it. AG> Its a prity weird bios (well its Award, but not as ive seen AG> them), what exactly are the INT# settings for each pci slot AG> ? the options are either A B C or D, or auto, obvioiusly AG> auto isnt working. (what are these settings, what do they AG> do?) The PCI subsystem gets a pool of IRQs, and these are referenced as A, B, C, and D. The actual IRQ numbers assigned to the pool are controlled elsewhere in the Award BIOS and can be changed if the PCI subsystem is in manual mode. If you have a non-PCI card in the machine that is already using one of the IRQs mapped into the pool, then the BIOS will not know about it and may cause a conflict. In that case, you must take manual control of the PCI settings and decide which IRQs are in the pool. Keep in mind that nearly all PCI machines have built-in EIDE controllers and therefore will not make IRQ 14 or 15 available in the pool. IRQ 2/9 is sometimes used by video cards. IRQ 10 is often used by sound cards. IRQ 11 is often used by SCSI controllers. IRQ 12 is often used by PS/2-style mouse ports when they are on the motherboard. IRQ 13 is always reserved for the math coprocessor. AG> There are settings to change the IRQ's but Ive been messing AG> and can't get it working by chaging them. Ive even swapped AG> round which slots are using for gfx and lan card etc etc. AG> Does anyone have any sugestions ? :) AG> PS - I also have an ISA card, but I cannot get that working AG> either, well it seems to be totally dead, i.e. no activity AG> from the LED's. The LEDs do not light on most network cards unless they are actually connected to an active network. AG> PPS :), Why do I need terminators when Im only connecting AG> two PC's togeather with 10 base 2 ?? No machines ever terminate the line in 10Base-2, so it has to be done externally. You cannot think of Ethernet as you would think of an electrical circuit, since it actually behaves more like a radio transmission line. Such a system must maintain a characteristic impedance in order to transmit ergy. I assume you also realize that, even if you are only using two machines, you still have to use tee connectors and cannot just connect the cable directly to each machine? -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100005 Date: 05/31/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 08:37pm \/To: GREG MACLELLAN (Read 8 times) Subj: Networking 486 es Greg MacLellan wrote in a message to Mike Bilow: MB> Try Datacomm Warehouse, (800)328-2261. Their part MB> DBN0309 is an unbranded 10Base-T card priced at $19.95 MB> with a $10.00 rebate, for an effective price of $9.95. GM> I just called, that's wicked.. =) GM> What do you have to say about the card? Would it work with GM> OS/2, dos, Win95 and win 3.11 (yes, i'd be running a wide GM> diversity =) ) Yes. Both cards are simple NE2000 clones. Even if no drivers are supplied with the card for your preferred operating system, you can probably find them easily. However, jumperless NE2000 clones use proprietary means of configuring address and IRQ, so you may need to boot DOS just to run the included utility to set these; once set, you are no longer constrained to S. GM> I have the following systems: GM> 6x86 166 - win95 GM> 486 dx4/100 - win95 GM> 486 dx4/100 - os/2 (warp 3 right now, but i'm looking for GM> connect) GM> ..and possibly a 386 dx40 - maybe dos/win3.11, but GM> probably os/2 connect You will be much happier upgrading to OS/2 Warp 4, since there are substantial networking enhancements over OS/2 Warp 3. (Note that 4 is only available with full networking support, so IBM dropped the "Connect" designation.) GM> the two 486's and 6x86 (if i network the 6x86) can't be GM> servers, although the 386 could be a dedicated server if i GM> need to use it. (warp 3.0 used to run fairly fast on it, it GM> used to run my bbs before i upgraded to a 486dx4. All i'd GM> need to do is get a case/video card/hdd/fdd and i'm set) If you want a cheap platform for a dedicated server, look at Linux. GM> I'd be using the network mainly to share files between GM> computers, but to play IPX games between the two 486's GM> ocasionally (in dos), and share the printer(s). GM> Soo... suggestions? With regard to the NE2000 clones? They would be ideal for your situation. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100006 Date: 05/31/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 08:46pm \/To: JUHA-MATTI TAPIO (Read 7 times) Subj: ms-dos, tcp/ip Juha-Matti Tapio wrote in a message to Uldis Mikelsons: > NW lan workplace/BW ip ( or how it is called)/ freeware pktdrivers JT> Do you have an URL perhaps? LAN Workplace is a commercial product from Novell. Packet Drivers are freeware, with a large collection at "ftp://ftp.crynwr.com". -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100007 Date: 05/31/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 08:47pm \/To: TERRY KNAPP (Read 6 times) Subj: NIC types Terry Knapp wrote in a message to All: TK> Can someone please tell me what NE 2000 compatable mean and TK> are they compatable with the likes of 3com Etherlink TK> 3c509btp cards. NE2000 was a basic Ethernet card made by Novell. Most inexpensive network cards now emulate these cards so that the extremely common NE2000 driver software can be used. Often, the clones provide some added features, such as support for more addresses IRQs than the original. You cannot use 3Com driver software with an NE2000 card. However, you can use a mix of 3Com and NE2000 cards on the same network with no trouble, as long as each machine is properly configured with its appropriate drivers. TK> How much can the average cards we see advertise be mixed. Of TK> course the cards would have to have the correct connectors but TK> is that enough. There are essentially no restrictions upon mixing network cards from different vendors on the same network. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100008 Date: 05/31/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 08:53pm \/To: TIM PROVENCIO (Read 6 times) Subj: NIC types Tim Provencio wrote in a message to Terry Knapp: TP> NE2000 is usually a low end clones excuse for existance. TP> Most of these $20 and under beasts are much more trouble TP> than a real card like a 3COM EtherLink III, etc. Try and TP> A) figure out which card you have, B) Find a driver C) Find TP> native support. I used to think these were cool when I was TP> either selling machines that I didn't end up servicing or TP> later working in the building with the clone mess I TP> created. Now that I have a real job I prefer namebrand TP> quality and convenience. NE2000 is about the same as saying TP> PC Compatible... it's simply the lowest common TP> denominator. I don't think your criticism of the NE2000 is fair. They are cheap cards that give value for the money. In a large enterprise, where the administrative overhead of supporting more than one brand of network card and the cost of dealing with even a single failure can be prohibitive, it might make sense to spend US$100 per card up front. For small users who cannot buy at quantity 20 prices, the NE2000 is a very reasonable deal for under $20. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100009 Date: 05/31/97 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 08:58pm \/To: BRUCE LANE (Read 6 times) Subj: network problems Bruce Lane wrote in a message to Andrew Grimsby: AG> what exactly are the INT# settings for each pci slot ? the options AG> are either A B C or D, or auto, obvioiusly auto isnt working. (what AG> are these settings, what do they do?) BL> The INT settings refer to the IRQ channels assigned to BL> the PCI slots (yes, PCI cards do require an IRQ). The BL> letters A=D actually are Hexadecimal digits. In decimal, BL> they would equal out to 10-13 respectively. BL> What this sounds like is that some other card, possibly BL> on your ISA bus side, has already grabbed IRQ 10 (same as BL> INT A). No, no, no! The letters do not correspond to hex digits! The letters correspond to places in the IRQ pool owned by PCI. Since a machine will have a mix of both PCI and non-PCI cards using IRQs, the BIOS allows specifying which actual IRQs are available for assignment by PCI. Let's say that I assign IRQ 5, 9, 10, and 12 to the PCI pool. When the machine boots, it will assign one as INT A, one as INT B, and so on. PCI can assign more than one card per IRQ and more than one IRQ per card, too. The letters correspond to the priority order in which slots are serviced: Slot A gets priority on INT A, for example. The key idea is to know which IRQs are in use by non-PCI cards and remove these IRQs from the PCI pool. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100010 Date: 05/23/97 From: DAVE CHAPMAN Time: 08:43pm \/To: MIKE BILOW (Read 6 times) Subj: 10BaseT In a message of It uses amplifiers. The two pairs connecting a concentrator with each MB>node are one pair in each direction. The pair carrying signal MB>into the concentrator is fed to a buffer amplifier and MB>fanned out to one driver amplifier for each outgoing pair. Now I'm lost so please correct me. With a hub, then, only one node can be active at a time. The collision problems are the same as co-ax, which is "obviously" superior, and cheaper. But 10Base T is what is sold especially in larger nets; and I've never seen 100Base 2. What am I missing? dave --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Lighthouse CBCS HST/V.32, Lansing MI, 517-321-0788 (1:159/950) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 193 LAN Ref: EA100011 Date: 05/31/97 From: TIM PROVENCIO Time: 07:58pm \/To: MIKE BILOW (Read 6 times) Subj: Re: NIC types On 31 May 97 20:53:23, Mike Bilow said the following to Tim Provencio: MB> Tim Provencio wrote in a message to Terry Knapp: MB> MB> TP> NE2000 is usually a low end clones excuse for existance. MB> TP> Most of these $20 and under beasts are much more trouble MB> TP> than a real card like a 3COM EtherLink III, etc. Try and MB> TP> A) figure out which card you have, B) Find a driver C) Find MB> TP> native support. I used to think these were cool when I was MB> TP> either selling machines that I didn't end up servicing or MB> TP> later working in the building with the clone mess I MB> TP> created. Now that I have a real job I prefer namebrand MB> TP> quality and convenience. NE2000 is about the same as saying MB> TP> PC Compatible... it's simply the lowest common MB> TP> denominator. MB> MB> I don't think your criticism of the NE2000 is fair. They are cheap cards t MB> give value for the money. Value is relative. MB> In a large enterprise, where the administrative overhead of supporting more MB> than one brand of network card and the cost of dealing with even a single MB> failure can be prohibitive, it might make sense to spend US$100 per card up MB> front. For small users who cannot buy at quantity 20 prices, the NE2000 is MB> very reasonable deal for under $20. I gave up even using them at home. I had tired of having them conflict with hardware when I upgraded, not having native support in applications and O/S's I happened to be evaluating or playing with and even losing settings. If nes time is worth little then clones are a deal, hence my claim to them being a value is relative. I have just had too much headaches with cheap clone hardware. For around $59 you can get an EtherLink III from popular direct mailing houses now that FE is a consumer item. BUT... if one does go with a clone can I at least recommend JUMPERS!? That will at least save a little head scratching. --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Tech-Red BBS - Oroville, California - 916.533.3786 (1:119/71)