--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00176Date: 11/17/96 From: JIM WALSH Time: 03:01am \/To: MARIE RISHER (Read 6 times) Subj: Re: Mark Wells Appeal Hello Marie... -=> Quoting Marie Risher to Jim Walsh <=- MR> AMEN we have lawyers who help place children in unhealthy MR> inviroment and they could care less if the children get the medical MR> help. I am a pre law student but most lawyers only want money. We MR> need new laws. Some laws that will protect us underdogs and put the MR> crooks in the justice system and welfare workers behind bars where they Thanks for your reply. In Canada, it could be said that only the CRIMINALS have a justice system. The VICTIMS have little. THEIR agony is splashed on every newspaper, in courtrooms, and magazines and TV shows, much to THEIR HUMILIATION. In Canada, we have NO DEATH PENALTY. The people of Canada would vote one in in a heartbeat if given a referendum, but that doesn't seem to be in the future. So, what is the answer? I don't have it, but I'll not sit still and watch victims continue to get pounded while the killers of children write books and make millions. See ya. ... Where's a HANGIN' JUDGE when ya need one? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0k * Hummin' Along in Rural Ontario * Origin: The Country Owl BBS * Node_ID: A0519000 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00177Date: 11/17/96 From: JIM WALSH Time: 03:01am \/To: MARK MAYFIELD (Read 6 times) Subj: Re: Mark Wells Appeal Hello Mark... -=> Quoting Mark Mayfield to Jim Walsh <=- MM> Jim, MM> Let me, as an attorney, explain my point and why I was/am shocked. MM> Just please don't lump me in with the "scumbags" to which you refer. MM> I'm not guilty MM> by my profession. I understand this, although some of your so called colleagues could use a lesson or two in TACT. MM> Believe it or not, I think I understand where you're coming from. I MM> think your sentiments are triggered by strong emotions and, as you MM> indicated, disgust. The problem is, a "justice" system can't work MM> effectively, or even close to effectively, if run by emotions. There I would argue this. The justice system, or so called, exists BECAUSE of emotion. If there was no disgust at crimes such as this one, there would be no law against it, and no justice carried out. I find it very difficult to understand how our PC society has gotten to the point where they think logic will save the day. I would argue that emotion is the reason for EVERY law on the books. From car theft, to rape, to kidnapping. If no one was ever upset by these crimes, and emotional enough to effect change, laws wouldn't exist. MM> Because its different and absolutely final, extra precautions must be MM> afforded. One of those precautions is an appeal. As you pointed out, The SCUM I refer to isn't in danger of facing the DEATH penalty, due to the fact that Canadian Law has no teeth, or spine for that matter. MM> I don't know the facts of the case. And perhaps, just perhaps, you MM> don't know them as well as you think you do. There may be facts that MM> were never brought out at trial that could have made a difference. I know this man's blood soaked clothing was found in HIS room, with a knife with HIS bloody fingerprints on it. I know he was placed at the scene. I know HIS bloody fingerprints were all over the crime scene. I know he bragged to two hookers about "offing some geeks". I know he fled the same day to Calgary trying to avoid the police. He is guilty. MM> convicted. Thus, the appeals process to check that everything was done MM> fairly and correctly. I believe the saying, "Better that 10 guilty men MM> go free than 1 innocent man be wrongly convicted" would be wisely used MM> here. That's why I said you should hope you're never in the wrong I disagree. NO system can be perfect. We are wrong for wanting a system that will NEVER convict an innocent man. That cannot happen. So, to make up for the fact that at some point in history an innocent man may be convicted, we are going to sell the whole bloody farm? I don't think so. MM> And he will automatically get an appeal to the Florida Supreme Court MM> because of MM> his death sentence. I have absolutely no qualms about it because I'm MM> sure the Court will reaffirm the jury's belief that this scum should MM> die for his crimes. But Mark, what about the obvious emotional and monetary pricetag? What about the DIGNITY of the victims. What about the RIGHTS of their families? What about the millions and millions of dollars this process costs us all every bloody year? Why should families have to relive the whole thing over again, so someone who is guilty, can be guilty again? It makes no sense to me. I think each case is different. Where a person is guilty beyond any doubt, their right, man I hate to even call it that, to an appeal should be denied. I didn't just crawl out from under a rock, there are many many people who feel EXACTLY the same as I do. Right now in my area we are enduring the Bernardo\Holmolka case. It's all on VIDEO. Plain and simple, yet we still have to go through all this, drag the poor families through it all, and as parents we have to edit our newspapers due to the facts of this case, which are unspeakable. So, should he also be granted an appeal? I can't buy into that kind of justice. MM> If Mark Welles is truly guilty, the appellate courts will reaffirm MM> that. Then MM> I think you should use that to take heart in the justice system that a MM> murdering scum can have all his appeals, try all his "tricks" and he MM> still won't win. While I can really appreciate the point you are making here, I simply cannot agree with it at all. So, thanks so much for your post Mark, we split hairs again, like that's never happened before ;) Later. ... Where's a HANGIN' JUDGE when ya need one? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0k * Hummin' Along in Rural Ontario * Origin: The Country Owl BBS * Node_ID: A0519000 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00178Date: 11/17/96 From: OLYN RANDOLPH Time: 03:01am \/To: MARIE RISHER (Read 6 times) Subj: Re; Const. Amend MR>I agree with this message. Our government are not here to protect the MR>citizens but they are going to protect thier own. We need to dispose of chi MR>protective services and some judges. We need to have it made mandatory that MR>they have to abide by the same laws that we do. I can relate to the militia MR>and other things happening. The middle and lower class have no rights. F MR>YOU MR>DON'T HAVE MONEY YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS. Marie, I am unsure of what message your agreeing with. But as it may be. I feel some of the protective service are needed, but there again where it lies with the " Government and etc. ". As you had said in the above statement. It does not say in the Constitution that their is a lower or middle class, surely nothing about " UPPER CLASS " either. That we are Equal! As for that being mandatory if government say its the " LAW " you have to abide and we done. Which has been the case since this nation became a " NATION ". They did it to the Indian. Which I am proud to be. Look what they did to the African, and Chinnes, poeple. There Rights had been taken away. This month Lifestyle has a page in it that would upset some poeple. They ask eight question that would be in turn, sent to the president. If you can not fine it me know, and I will feel you in on what it asked. TTYL Olyn, OLX 2.1 TD Events of importance often result from trivial causes. * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0j * Running SPITFIRE, The Best In BBS Software... * Origin: Terminal Velocity * Node_ID: A0314005 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00179Date: 11/17/96 From: OLYN RANDOLPH Time: 03:01am \/To: JACK STUKAS (Read 6 times) Subj: Re: Const. Amend If you read the Constitution and the Declaration of Indepentence. It is written in English. An was the Dictionary also in English. Olyn, OLX 2.1 TD We all need Congress like they need us... * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0j * Running SPITFIRE, The Best In BBS Software... * Origin: Terminal Velocity * Node_ID: A0314005 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00180Date: 11/17/96 From: DENNIS BENNETT Time: 03:01am \/To: MARK MAYFIELD (Read 6 times) Subj: Mark Wells Appeal Wrong convictions are at times common place. That's why I'm against death penalty. Was wrongly accused once and was made to feel MM high. Thing was dismissed after I taped some phone confos., believe that is what saved me. After that ordeal I researched the subject and found others. * SPITFIRE v3.5 * The LYONS Den (708)442-8117 Lyons, IL * SHILOH v1.0 * * Origin: The LYONS Den BBS * Node_ID: A0708002 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00181Date: 11/17/96 From: DENNIS BENNETT Time: 03:01am \/To: MARIE RISHER (Read 6 times) Subj: Re Const. Amend I agree about protective services. They either should be made accountable for their actions or the organ. needs to be disbanded. * SPITFIRE v3.5 * The LYONS Den (708)442-8117 Lyons, IL * SHILOH v1.0 * * Origin: The LYONS Den BBS * Node_ID: A0708002 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00182Date: 11/17/96 From: DENNIS BENNETT Time: 03:01am \/To: MARIE RISHER (Read 6 times) Subj: Re: Mark Wells Appeal I agree, but with one exception added.... Judges should be held or any others for injury to a child after they made THEIR dicission in the best interest of the child. In other words, if the child is injured or harmed from a result of a bad dicission they are held as an accessory after the fact. * SPITFIRE v3.5 * The LYONS Den (708)442-8117 Lyons, IL * SHILOH v1.0 * * Origin: The LYONS Den BBS * Node_ID: A0708002 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00183Date: 11/17/96 From: RICHARD BRAWLEY Time: 03:01am \/To: ALL (Read 6 times) Subj: Re: Censors.. Bwatch 7/1 I guess this is the right conf. for this. We need to know what's going on, rights taken for granted are too easily lost. Watch for postings each week, and speak your mind to your representative(s). Subj: (Weekly) VTW BillWatch #9 Date: 95-07-15 02:52:01 EDT From: shabbir@panix.com (Shabbir J. Safdar) To: TarsTfrmNC@aol.com ============================================================================ VTW BillWatch: A weekly newsletter tracking US Federal legislation affecting civil liberties. BillWatch is published every Friday afternoon as long as Congress is in session. Issue #9, Date: Sat Jul 15 02:44:51 EDT 1995 Please widely redistribute this document with this banner intact Redistribute no more than two weeks after above date Reproduce this alert only in relevant forums Distributed by the Voters Telecommunications Watch (vtw@vtw.org) *** Know of someone in NY/NJ with a fax machine but without net *** *** access that's interested in VTW's issues? Tell them to *** *** call and get on our weekly fax distribution list at *** *** (718) 596-2851. *** To get on the distribution list for BillWatch, send mail to listproc@vtw.org with "subscribe vtw-announce Firstname Lastname" in the subject line. Email vtw@vtw.org with "send billwatch" in the subject line to receive the latest version of BillWatch ____________________________________________________________________________ CONTENTS Rumor Central (RC) Internet Freedom and Family Empowerment Act (HR 1978, S n.a.) (awaiting official presentation in the House, nothing in Senate) 1995 Communications Decency Act (HR 1004, S 314) (passed Senate, fight in the House) 1995 Protection of Children from Computer Pornography Act (HR n.a., S 892, Senate hearing scheduled for July 24th) Anti-Electronic Racketeering Act of 1995 (HR n.a., S 974, not currently moving in the Senate) ____________________________________________________________________________ RUMOR CENTRAL (RC) "Dumb and Dumber" Just when you thought United States crypto export controls couldn't get any dumber, along comes Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) and his ``Anti-Electronic Racketeering Act of 1995''. If this bill is anything, it's named correctly: Anti-Electronic. It would make it a crime to make available software that: encodes or encrypts electronic or digital communications to computer networks that the person distributing the software knows or reasonably should know, is accessible to foreign nationals and foreign governments, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SUCH SOFTWARE HAS BEEN DESIGNATED AS NONEXPORTABLE [emphasis added] That's right. US cryptography export laws just got "dumber". Although you hear grumbling from professionals who understand this, there's no telling how the industry will take it. A few years ago the software industry worked out a compromise that now allows companies like Lotus and Netscape to export their products with "not so strong" cryptography in them. The rationale was that it should be sufficiently safe for commercial use, but still breakable by our own intelligence community should the products we used against United States interests. Many criticized this compromise as sacrificing too much privacy for too little security. After all, terrorists overseas can purchase stronger cryptography than we can't export, so why restrict it? An analysis of the bill is available from VTW. We've added it to the set of bills we're tracking and will let the public know when it's time to act upon it. "Rimm Here at Rumor Central, we're keeping a damage count caused by Marty Rimm's pathetic net-porn study and the accompanying Time cover story ("Cyberporn", July 3, 1995). This week's collateral damage was carried out by none other than Sen. Jim Exon (D-NE) who got his Communications Decency Act passed by the Senate (84-16, June 14, 1995) but is *still mad* that anyone spoke up against him. He said that Time was convincing Americans that something needs to be done about obscenity on computer networks. Also in his barbaric July 12th speech on the Senate floor that Exon himself entitled "Lies that Pornographers Tell", he criticized several public-interest groups including the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), the Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) calling them "porn-users advocates". Although Rumor Central has spent much time in the EFF archives, we have never seen any porn there. Perhaps Sen. Exon has found a new mission for the EFF? :-) Left out of this rant was any mention of the Voters Telecommunications Watch (VTW). We take that as a sign that we haven't worked hard enough on this issue, and we'll work harder to make it into the "porn-users advocates" Hall of Fame before the session is over. Send your interesting rumors (anonymously or not) to vtw@vtw.org. All mail headers will be destroyed. ____________________________________________________________________________ Internet Freedom and Family Empowerment Act (HR 1978, S n.a.) Description: HR 1978 is an attempt to recognize the unique medium that is online systems and avoid legislating censorship. It would: -prohibit the FCC from regulating constitutionally-protected online speech -absolve sysops and services from liability if they take good faith measures to screen their content or provide parental-screening software Yes, the above sentence is correct. HR 1978 would PROHIBIT the FCC from regulating online content. See directions below for obtaining analyses from various organizations. House of Representatives, citizen action required: Take a moment to read and familiarize yourself with the bill. It may be the only time you ever see a bill that *prohibits* the FCC from regulating the Internet. House sponsors: Cox (R-CA), Wyden (D-OR) House status: Currently HR 1978 is being examined by several DC policy groups (EPIC, CDT, ACLU, & PFAW) to ensure it won't have any undesirable side effects. Therefore, the legislation as written may change slightly to correct any problems found. House actions anticipated: Representatives Cox and Wyden will propose their bill and the Christian Coalition will propose the Communications Decency Act. Although Rep. Gingrich's opposition to the Communications Decency Act is encouraging, it isn't clear that it will be enough to keep the House from passing another clearly unconstitutional bill. Where to get more info: Email: vtw@vtw.org (with "send hr1978" in the subject line) Gopher: gopher -p 1/vtw/exon gopher.panix.com WWW: http://www.panix.com/vtw/exon ____________________________________________________________________________ 1995 COMMUNICATIONS DECENCY ACT (CDA) (Passed Senate, HR 1004) Description: The CDA would criminalize electronic speech currently protected in print by the First Amendment. House of Representatives, citizen action required: Call the League of Women Voters in your city and find out who your representative is and ask them where they stand. Directions can be found by sending mail to vtw@vtw.org with "send alert" in the subject line. House CDA sponsors: Johnson (D-SD) House status: Currently the CDA is unattached to any legislation, however it is expected that someone will introduce it as an amendment to the Telecomm bill in the next few weeks. In addition, three Representatives (Gingrich, Cox, and Wyden) have all taken public positions against the Communications Decency Act. Anti- censorship legislation (HR 1978) has come out of their objections to the CDA. The palatable Leahy alternative has been attached to the House Telecomm Reform bill by an amendment sponsored by Rep. Ron Klink (D-4-PA). House actions anticipated: The House Telecomm Reform bill will go to a floor vote in mid to late July. The Christian Coalition will find someone to try to amend the Communications Decency Act to the Telecomm Reform bill. Reps. Cox and Wyden will propose their alternative to the bill. Request the CDA FAQ and familiarize yourself with the issues surrounding the bill. Directions below. Senate, citizen action required: None. That battle is lost. Senate status: The Senate affirmed the Communications Decency Act (84-16) as amended to the Telecommunications Reform bill (S 652). Where to get more info: WWW: http://www.panix.com/vtw/exon http://www.eff.org/ http://www.cdt.org/ http://epic.org/free_speech Gopher: gopher -p 1/vtw/exon gopher.panix.com gopher gopher.eff.org Email: vtw@vtw.org (with "send cdafaq" in the subject line) cda-status@cdt.org cda-info@cdt.org ____________________________________________________________________________ 1995 Protection of Children from Computer Pornography Act (S 892) Description: Would make Internet Service Providers liable for shielding people under 18 from all indecent content on the Internet. Senate sponsors: Dole (R-KS), Coats (R-IN), Grassley (R-IA), McConnell (R-KY), Shelby (R-AL), Nickles (R-OK), Hatch (R-UT) Senate status: Currently in the Judiciary committee, scheduled for a July 24th hearing. The hearing promises to be a bonanza of net porn/stalker hysteria. Senate citizen action required: Request bill and analysis below and familiarize yourself with it. House of Representatives status: No House version is known about. Citizen action required: None. Where to get more info: Email: vtw@vtw.org (with "send s892" in the subject line) WWW: URL:http://www.panix.com/vtw/exon Gopher: URL:gopher://gopher.panix.com:70/11/vtw/exon ____________________________________________________________________________ Anti-Electronic Racketeering Act of 1995 (HR n.a., S 974) Description: S 974 has many effects (not good) on law enforcement's use of intercepted communications. It would also make it unlawful for any person to publicly disseminate encoding or encrypting software including software *currently allowed* to be exported unless it contained a "universal decoding device". (Note, this more than likely means that Clipper-style key escrow systems could be disseminated, but not strong, private cryptography. -Shabbir) Senate sponsors: Grassley (R-IA) Senate status: Currently not active and probably won't move before the August recess. Senate citizen action required: Request bill below and familiarize yourself with it. VTW is tracking this bill, and will alert you when there is movement. House of Representatives status: No House version is currently enrolled. Where to get more info: Email: vtw@vtw.org (with "send s974" in the subject line) Gopher: URL:gopher://gopher.panix.com:70/11/vtw/ ____________________________________________________________________________ End VTW BillWatch Issue #9, Date: Sat Jul 15 02:44:51 EDT 1995 ============================================================================ Watch for bulletins. See you next week. RLB ... ...the first duty of a citi--- * LAKOTA v1.3 * SHILOH v1.0j * *The Swamp Witch BBS*(704)726-1115 * Origin: The Swamp Witch BBS * Node_ID: A0704000 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFM00000Date: 11/17/96 From: DAVID PILEGGI Time: 09:29am \/To: PUBLIC (Read 6 times) Subj: R-Luby'S-Maindish.001 LUBY'S CHEESE ENCHILADAS WITH CHILI SAUCE Qty Measurement Ingredient ___-- ------------------- ------------------------------------------- 16 6-in corn tortillas vegetable oil 6 cups (24 ozs) cheddar cheese, shredded 1 cup onion, chopped 1 cup (4 ozs) American cheese, shredded CHILI SAUCE: