--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00086Date: 11/17/96 From: MISTY RANDOLPH Time: 03:01am \/To: ALL (Read 6 times) Subj: Just curious!!!! Hey all what should it matter what other people think I feel that we have a right to our own opinion but,now days it don't matter if what we say may be right or not it will always offend someone or somebody somewhere... So if you think it or feel you are right or just have it on your mind say it and not be afraid of what people think....But first think about it and if you are going to regret it later than don't say it but if your not you never know someone might side with you....that is life there will always be someone to disagree with you and there will always be someone to agree with you....so don't be afraid to voice your opinion..... signed: MDR.... OLX 2.1 TD Get a Grip.... * SHILOH v1.0j * Central Mo. Lake of the Ozarks * Origin: Just For Fun BBS * Node_ID: A0314000 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00087Date: 11/17/96 From: BRIAN BOWMAN Time: 03:01am \/To: DEAN LANE (Read 6 times) Subj: Adult Areas DL>MM>DN> There's some question whether this is censorship or just DL>MM>DN> restricting access. There is a difference. Censorship removes DL>MM>DN> something from everyone, while restricting access only limits DL>MM>DN> the content of certain types of media. The things you list DL>MM>DN> are all available on television thru cable services, so DL>MM>DN> they're NOT examples of censorship. Huh? Playing loose with definitions, I'd say! "Limiting content is only "restriction" and not "censorship?" Wow! I suppose if political pamphlets are "restricted" they wouldn't be "censored" just because the government goons allowed political dissent to be presented in established academic journals. It would only be "restricting access!" You should prostitute your abilities to obfuscate and become a politician. :) CmpQwk #UNREG UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0j * Valley BBS - Area Code Hub A0614000 * Origin: Valley BBS * Node_ID: A0614000 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00088Date: 11/17/96 From: RON LAUZON Time: 03:01am \/To: JIM WALSH (Read 6 times) Subj: Re: Adult Areas JW> Bingo! I agree with you here. The problem seems to be that it is JW> unacceptable to say what you feel to be true. I am sooooo sick of JW> hearing this poor, confused old word "censorship", that I could JW> scream. Censorship!!! *grin* I just had to do that. On the topic of adult areas on BBSs, the problem really is censorship. We have groups who are simply trying to ban the areas. They are using the smoke screen of "this stuff hurts our kids" to essentially censor anything they don't like. But instead of simply turning away from these areas, they want everyone else in the world to conform to their views. JW> This is the most manipulated word we have. Common sense has JW> taken a vacation, and anything goes has replaced it. Common sense says that BBS operators should take proper percautions to prevent minors from accessing the adult areas. Common sence has definately taken a vacation, but it has not been replaced by anything goes. Just the opposite, it's been replaced by "nothing goes". JW> Censorship seems to be a smoke screen for left JW> wing agenda in our society. I don't buy it, and am quite sick of it. You are marking yourself as an ultra conservative, tolerant of nothing outside of your idea of "the norm". JW> There are plenty of assumptions being made in these arguments. The JW> biggest misconception is that kids are being raised in homes where JW> their tv viewing is being controlled by an adult. This is simply JW> not true. Then those parents are poor parents. If those parents do not want their kids to have access to material that the parents find objectionable, the parents should be monitoring what their kids do. Let me remind you that it is not my responsibility to protect your kids. By banning all things that you find objectionable, you put that responsibility on me. ... It's as bad as you think and they are out to get you. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20p 386 Beta * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0j * The Best Of All The Rest! * Origin: Out Of This World BBS * Node_ID: A0810001 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00089Date: 11/17/96 From: DAVID NORTH Time: 03:01am \/To: JIM DORSEY (Read 6 times) Subj: Kid's and TV -=> Quoting Jim Dorsey to David North <=- DN> One of the major problems I'm sure you'd see with this DN> "society as parent" concept is that parents all have different DN> standards and society's would never agree with all of them. DN> We've seen enough of this in the school systems, eh ? JD> Hi David JD> At the risk of repeating myself her's my cure for that hmmmm, . . thought I'd sent this to another Jim, but no matter. JD> It is about time we changed our methods for funding education by JD> abolishing public education entirely. JD> Not school taxes, but the whole system of school-boards, JD> trustees, school districts and school buildings. [description of voucher system followed] JD> No Hassles about the curriculum either. If you don't like it shop JD> around for a school that won't expose your child to sex education or JD> certain books that you feel aren't appropriate. You want your child to JD> have prayer, fine send them to a school that offers your particular JD> type of education. This way we could stay with in the constitutional JD> guidelines of the state not fostering any particular religion too. That would take some major revamping of the religious schools, as paying government funds to any of them that I know of is paying government funds to a particular church, but that's a matter for another thread. So, to take your solution to it's ultimate form, it would be OK to use these vouchers at schools run by the KKK, Black Panters, and NAMBLA, right ? I'm not discounting your solution, just showing you how far it could be made to stretch under the concept of "find a school that teaches what you want". The more likely problem that I see in it is with people who want a religion-based education for their children but live in areas where their religion is not heavily represented and lack the time or talents to home school. They're still in the same boat of having their children given someone else's values. We're still looking at having someone else doing what most of us have already recognized as the parent's responsibility. ... AT&GETMAIL&UNPACKMAIL&READMAIL&LOADREPLY&STEALTAG ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0i * 'Growing strong on the MS GulfCoast' * Origin: Micro-TechNet BBS * Node_ID: A0812003 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00090Date: 11/17/96 From: BILL STECH Time: 03:01am \/To: THOMAS BLAKELY (Read 6 times) Subj: Adult Areas Sorry to butt in but one thing needs to noted. TB> That's what the FCC does. Note that you don't see much frontal TB> nudity on television, nor, do you see Faces of Death or Deep Throat. Actually you do see frontal nudity on TV for the past 20 years or so. Its called PBS. When may harmones kicked at age 12 and HBO hadn't been invented yet I started watching I Cladius on Masterpiece theater. It had strong violence and a lot of nudity. After that I started watching a lot public television. It is funny because I sat through many a boring program on hopes of what it would show. Anyway the FCC may have right but I do not believe they have every tried to stop a PBS production from airing mainly because its fight they ould not want to lose. The true reason I believe the networks have any standards at all is the advertisers. If I were Pepsi or other company I wouldn't want to be associated with NYPD Blue or similar programs. Ultimately if we want to get better family programming the answer may lie in watching and supporting the programs that are family orientating and not watching the trash. What may be the saddest commentary is that the "trash" is so popular that it will ontinue and parents will darned. (I censored myself). * SPITFIRE v3.5 * SHILOH v1.0j * Valley BBS - Area Code Hub A0614000 * Origin: Valley BBS * Node_ID: A0614000 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00091Date: 11/17/96 From: JIM WALSH Time: 03:01am \/To: MARK MAYFIELD (Read 6 times) Subj: Stuff Hello Mark.... Why do I always get these at this hour? MM>Just one last question on this topic: What's to blame for the violence that MM>occurred before TV, before radio, before "left wing agendas," before MM>newspapers, etc.? And please, I know there was less, but it existed. Can y MM>explain why and, if so, is there any difference from then to now, besides th MM>amount? If I had the answer to this question Mark, you and I both know, I would have THE answer. My opinon is that it isn't the fact there is violence, it is the "type" of violence. There is a loss of respect, or code, that is undeniable. I grew up in a tough area but there was always respect for your opponent. This doesn't exist anymore. There was violence before sure, but how many 80 year old women were being raped and murdered 30 years ago? How many children were being raped and murdered 30 years ago? The kind of crimes we are seeing today show a complete disregard for human suffering. I can't really say it how I would like, but many police officers and teachers can say better than I could. They are on the front line, so if you want a "real" definitive word on it, that is where you should go. I realize of course you are being slightly sarcastic, hard as that is for me to believe,, but I stick to my opinion on this, as is my right to do so. I will continue to spread my thoughts on this issue. I will give you a case that has recently occurred in a town not far from here. Teenage kids playing road hockey on the street causing trouble for motorists trying to get up and down their street. One woman stopped, asked them to move so she could get by, her car was kicked, she was cursed at, and felt very threatened. So, what happens? Well, the people on this street took it to the town council meeting, and these punks have them so terrified that they demanded anonymity!!!!! So, that is an example of how things have changed. Where I come from, if you cursed a woman up and down in her car or threatened her, someone was gonna make you pay, and you would quickly learn, that even in the world of punks, there is a code. It isn't there anymore. Anyway, I gotta get some sleep, see ya. SLMR 2.1a it's not the bullet that kills you...it's the hole. * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0j * The Country Owl * 519.693.7152 * Origin: The Country Owl BBS * Node_ID: A0519008 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00092Date: 11/17/96 From: JIM WALSH Time: 03:01am \/To: RON LAUZON (Read 6 times) Subj: Re: Adult Areas Ron.... RL>On the topic of adult areas on BBSs, the problem really is censorship. RL>We have groups who are simply trying to ban the areas. They are using RL>the smoke screen of "this stuff hurts our kids" to essentially censor RL>anything they don't like. But instead of simply turning away from these RL>areas, they want everyone else in the world to conform to their views. If it was allowed on this net, I would post some file descriptions that I saw on a bbs that INCLUDED lots of sexual VIOLENCE. These descriptions were readily available to ANYONE who was browsing down the list. I could have been a 7 year old kid, they would NOT have known this, as they did NOT ask. This is not the first time I have run into this kind of GARBAGE. Now, I am not asking anyone to BAN all things I think are objectionable. I AM however stating my opinion that file areas such as I have briefly described are harmful, and it is totally irresponsible on the part of the operators of these systems. Having said that, if I then say I want it cleaned up, all of a sudden I am an ultra-conservative. Ummm...what gives here? RL>Common sense says that BBS operators should take proper percautions to RL>prevent minors from accessing the adult areas. Common sence has RL>definately taken a vacation, but it has not been replaced by anything RL>goes. Just the opposite, it's been replaced by "nothing goes". ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I guess that would depend on your definition of NOTHING GOES. RL>You are marking yourself as an ultra conservative, tolerant of nothing RL>outside of your idea of "the norm". Jeepers, thanks for the label. Talk about intolerance. Anyone who doesn't agree with you and has opinions outside your realm of thinking is an ULTRA CONSERVATIVE? Ummm....interesting indeed Ron. RL>Then those parents are poor parents. If those parents do not want their RL>kids to have access to material that the parents find objectionable, the RL>parents should be monitoring what their kids do. Okay Ron, then what if those parents just don't care?? What then? Saying they are poor parents means nothing, that goes WITHOUT saying. That is obvious. THe question is then, what do we do about it? RL>Let me remind you that it is not my responsibility to protect your kids. RL>By banning all things that you find objectionable, you put that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I sure hope you can find where I did say this. And, it is OUR responsibility to protect ALL children, IMO. Screwed up kids have a universal fit Ron, they aren't limited to some segments of the population, they affect ALL sectors of society. Later. SLMR 2.1a computer porn....what a * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0j * The Country Owl * 519.693.7152 * Origin: The Country Owl BBS * Node_ID: A0519008 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00093Date: 11/17/96 From: JIM WALSH Time: 03:01am \/To: BRIAN BOWMAN (Read 6 times) Subj: Censorship Hello Brian...... BB> Like I said a couple times, when you start censoring or restricting BB>or whatever you wish to call it, where does it end? Good-bye Arnold, If you have no limits to anything...where does IT end?? See ya. SLMR 2.1a Who to himself is law, no law doth need. * LAKOTA v1.4 * SHILOH v1.0j * The Country Owl * 519.693.7152 * Origin: The Country Owl BBS * Node_ID: A0519008 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00094Date: 11/17/96 From: PAUL PRATT Time: 03:01am \/To: THOMAS BLAKELY (Read 6 times) Subj: Adult Areas Thomas Blakely said something about Adult Areas to Dean Lane: DL>I hope you're trying to be silly. I don't want anything taken off the DL>air because I don't like it. Now that's a very health, reasonable statement. There are always other channels and there _is_ always the "off" button. IMNSHO, the only censorship that should be practiced is self-censorship. TB> Well, yes, I was. But, there is a validity in the point. That is, TB> that if you take programs off the air simply because a group of vocal TB> people scream about it, then you can lose quite a lot of good TB> programming. Barney, is an excellent example. It's gotten some bad TB> press, and there are many people who are vocal about hating it, in fact TB> there's even a alt.barney.die.die.die newsgroup on the internet. TB> If the network canceled this show solely based on vocalisations, then TB> our children would have one less non-violent show that teaches respect TB> and sharing and other admirable traits. Let the marketplace decide what programming survives. If enough folks turn away from a program or program category, then that type of programming will "die" from that lack of market share. TB> them. I mean, have you read some of the brothers Grimm fairy tales? TB> They are violent, with images of death, and thievery, and so on. But TB> you don't see millions of kids being turned into mindless killers by TB> these. Or, to put it another way, if I beat my child, then he will TB> beat his child, that's a known fact. However, if I let him watch Power TB> Rangers, there's little chance he'll grow up to be an abusive father. The same attacks currently underway against shows like the Power Rangers are regurgitations of the attacks launched against shows like the Three Stooges. Only the names have been changed, not the argument. [...] TB> Let me put it to you like this. You can complain to the networks, so TB> what. You complain to the FCC, and they will investigate your TB> complaint. When the FCC says "jump", the networks, and any tv station TB> that wants to be in business tomorrow will say "how high?" That's way too much power for any bureaucracy, IMNSHO. TB> This is because the FCC can, and will, simply take the station or even TB> the network, off the air by turning off the satellite systems and the TB> transmitters. They can do that. DL>TB>Note that you don't see much frontal DL>TB>nudity on TB> television, nor, do you see Faces of Death or Deep Throat. Seen them both. Wasn't impressed the first time and I wouldn't care to see them again, either on broadcast TV or tape...but that's _my_ choice, and I would be very upset if they were removed from the market. ~~~ PGPBLUE 3.0 ... CENSORSHIP: A weapon directed against freedom of thought. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * SHILOH v1.0j * This space for rent. * Origin: Channel Z BBS * Node_ID: A0702001 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 190 INTER. COOKING Ref: DFL00095Date: 11/17/96 From: PAUL PRATT Time: 03:01am \/To: ALL (Read 6 times) Subj: Hello Hello, all. I'm new to SFNet and just thought that I should introduce myself. You'll get used to me... ;) ~~~ PGPBLUE 3.0 ... Correct me if I'm wrong, everybody else does. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * SHILOH v1.0j * This space for rent. * Origin: Channel Z BBS * Node_ID: A0702001 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: Don's Den Of Iniquity * 28.8 * 515.792.8286 (1:290/110)