--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 186 SCUBA Ref: E5Z00002 Date: 05/29/97 From: SCOTT M. OWENS Time: 02:45pm \/To: DENNIS SEAVEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Soapbox Reply Hello Dennis, On 25 May 97 13:56:50 Dennis Seavey wrote to Scot Owens... DS> In the message that I sent regarding the article you sent me I DS> discovered quite the typo. My reply said that I have "problems" DS> telling people that I'm not going to dive when in fact I pull DS> very few punches with respect to telling people that I won't dive DS> or am terminating a dive. I hope this disclaimer getsd out there DS> before my somewhat sordid reputation gets muddy feet. DS> Be wet and well. DS> Not a problem Dennis. I figured that was the case, and also that you were being diplomatic to the people that you were about to tell to go pound sand. I do enjoy our conversations though. In the future I will try not to jump on the "Soap Box" too much. I do not want to give you the impression that I thumb my nose at scuba divers. You have to become a scuba diver before you become a commercial diver. I enjoy scuba diving alot. Just because I go very deep while on surface supplied air and Heliox, does not mean that when ever I go recreational diving that I push the ecompression tables. I would like you imppression on the use of Nitrox that is on the other message though. The stuff we use in the commercial field is 50/50, and it's only used for in water decompression prior to chamber runs. Regards, -=Scott=- ... Murphy's law needs to be repealed. ~~~ wsOMR/1.20b [UNREG] --- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.41b3+ * Origin: Information Exchange BBS Houma, LA (504)872-4275 (1:384/14.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 186 SCUBA Ref: E5^00000 Date: 05/30/97 From: SCOTT M. OWENS Time: 7:38am \/To: DOROTHY FERRIS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: checking Hello Dorothy, On 28 May 97 09:08:00 Dorothy Ferris wrote to All... DF> Hi DF> With the coming of great scuba weather I thought I would check to DF> see if my mail feed is working correctly seeing that no one seems DF> to be chatting. If you see this message please respond. DF> Sorry for being off topic. Not a problem, at least it's getting out to Louisiana. Regards, -=Scott=- ... Hard work never killed anyone but why take the risk? ~~~ wsOMR/1.20b [UNREG] --- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.41b3+ * Origin: Information Exchange BBS Houma, LA (504)872-4275 (1:384/14.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 186 SCUBA Ref: E5^00001 Date: 05/30/97 From: SCOTT M. OWENS Time: 7:38am \/To: DENNIS SEAVEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: My turn on the Soap box (This is fun 7:38:0405/30/97 Hello Dennis, On 25 May 97 13:51:47 Dennis Seavey wrote to Scott M. Owens... DS> This is exactly the kind of situation that I was referring to. DS> The conditions of the dive( ie confined water, the depth, DS> potentially hazardous current, extremly limited visiblity and the DS> object to recover being on the scale of a car) should have pu the DS> divers off to begin with. In the letter I hear much blame being DS> passed around but nobody seems to be blaming the divers who took DS> the job and who should have known that they were beyond their DS> level of training. Come on Dennis, you yourself said that there were jobs you turned down because the people mislead you. I should probably not be picked to be on the DS> jury for the law suits coming out of this incident because I feel DS> that the ultimate descision to enter the water was that of the DS> divers. I would love to be on the Jury for this one. Like I said the guys were probably mislead. We can't ever find out what they were told. They could have been told that the cars were only a few feet down the siphon. They could have been told that the siphon was not that deep. I couldn't even begin to tell you how many times that I was mislead on a job. I can't even recall how many times I've agreed to do DS> some light job, locating and recovering someone's propeller for DS> example, that I've called off on site due to the diving DS> conditions (most of the time the person trying to get a diver DS> does not understand the situation enough to give me the pertinent DS> info before hand). I know my training and have a good handle on DS> my personal limits and have problems telling someone that I'm DS> just not going to dive today (even if I blame it on a missing DS> O-ring). Then you are alot smarter than most recreational divers in these situations. I also have no problems terminating a dive that I think DS> is getting out of hand or may get out of hand. Maybe I'm just a DS> weenie in my old age, but, at least I'm getting to experience my DS> age. Being a weenie has nothing to do with it. I have walked off many a job that I considered unsafe. I value my life too much to take un-necessary risks. There is a big difference between a calculated risk, and flat out stupidity. I have lost too many friends in the diving business who did not know the difference. By the way I am 37 and I don't consider myself old. If your loder than that let me know. DS> Keep in mind that I think there are a considerable amount of DS> light jobs out there that a recreation diver can do just fine. DS> Search and recovery specialties and the like can be helpful but DS> the bottom line is to recognise the limits and keep the crayon DS> inside the lines. Big jobs, like the one in the article, or day DS> to day diving activities witrh lots of bottom time simply fall DS> outside the range of recreational dive training. (Incidently, DS> one of the organizations that I teach for is the YMCA which was DS> referenced in the article.) By the way I do travel as part of the ADC to some of the scuba courses to teach the new recreational divers not to get involved in Commercial Diving work unless they go to the school. So far it seems to work in the gulf regions. But the inland scuba divers are the ones that are giving every one a bad rap. Doing dam inspections and getting sucked into the turbine intakes. But the whole tradigy of the situation is that it didn't have to happen. While I don't want to try and second guess the decision-making leading up to accident in the siphon, there are issues that must be addressed so that everyone in both fields of diving can have an opportunity to learn from this tragedy. (Damn I'm back on the soap box again) Every year several scuba divers across this country lose their lives in similiar accidents. You don't read about it in scuba magizines because the divers were doing commercial work, so they are listed as commercial diver accidents. It's very common for small municipalities (Irrigation & utility districts, cities, counties, etc.) and organizations in the private sector, to routinely employ recreational trained scuba divers to form diving activities that are clearly commercial in nature. Often this is the result of ignorance of the risks involved with underwater activities. Diving operations may be such a small percentage of their overall maintenance picture that it's not reasonable to expect the organization to train some one to be able to understand diving operations and the options available to minimize risks. Sometimes it's simply a matter of choosing to take the inexpensive way out. I myself love to dive. I would not be in this line of work if I did not. When I was a scuba diver, I loved to dive. I would never miss a chance to don my wetsuit and tanks and hop in the water. I think that is probably the biggest problem. What person is going to miss the chance to actually get paid for doing what he loves to do. Especially if he/she is not told all the pertinent information. (I.E. It's an easy dive. Just go down and hook up the cable to the cars, and we'll pull them out.) My deepest sympathies go out to the friends and families of those divers. Now that I got that off my chest. I can get off my "Soap Box" Hows the diving in Florida Dennis? It's been years since I last had a vaction long enough to do any recreational diving. Regards, -=Scott=- ... I don't have a solution but I admire the problem. ~~~ wsOMR/1.20b [UNREG] --- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.41b3+ * Origin: Information Exchange BBS Houma, LA (504)872-4275 (1:384/14.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 186 SCUBA Ref: E5^00002 Date: 05/30/97 From: SCOTT M. OWENS Time: 7:38am \/To: DENNIS SEAVEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Soapbox Reply Hello Dennis, On 25 May 97 13:56:50 Dennis Seavey wrote to Scot Owens... DS> In the message that I sent regarding the article you sent me I DS> discovered quite the typo. My reply said that I have "problems" DS> telling people that I'm not going to dive when in fact I pull DS> very few punches with respect to telling people that I won't dive DS> or am terminating a dive. I hope this disclaimer getsd out there DS> before my somewhat sordid reputation gets muddy feet. DS> Be wet and well. DS> Not a problem Dennis. I figured that was the case, and also that you were being diplomatic to the people that you were about to tell to go pound sand. I do enjoy our conversations though. In the future I will try not to jump on the "Soap Box" too much. I do not want to give you the impression that I thumb my nose at scuba divers. You have to become a scuba diver before you become a commercial diver. I enjoy scuba diving alot. Just because I go very deep while on surface supplied air and Heliox, does not mean that when ever I go recreational diving that I push the ecompression tables. I would like you imppression on the use of Nitrox that is on the other message though. The stuff we use in the commercial field is 50/50, and it's only used for in water decompression prior to chamber runs. Regards, -=Scott=- ... Murphy's law needs to be repealed. ~~~ wsOMR/1.20b [UNREG] --- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.41b3+ * Origin: Information Exchange BBS Houma, LA (504)872-4275 (1:384/14.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 186 SCUBA Ref: E5^00003 Date: 05/30/97 From: OLAN WATKINS Time: 10:36am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: East Coast Diving ----Forwarded Message(s)---- 30-May-97 09:22:14 Sb: Food for thought as we dive Fm: "Dr. Jerry L. Wall" > INTERNET:brwall@alpha.nlu.edu A friend forwarded this to me. Thought you might be interested given that several of you dive off the east coast. Flesh-eating toxin poses new threat Millions of fish have succumbed,humans hurt, too By Robert Hager NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT A newly discovered microscopic organism is posing an enormous threat in southeastern coastal areas, killing millions of fish and eating away at the flesh and minds of humans. While no one is 100 percent sure of the culprit, some researchers believe a rare, but extremely poisonous, variety of an ancient microorganism called Pfiesteria is responsible. More than a billion fish have been killed by the organism in North Carolina alone since 1991. "There were fish dying, and there were fish that were just disoriented, darting back and forth and spiraling," said Bill Lotz, a local diver. The microorganism Pfiesteria: rare but deadly The organism attacks and destroys the skin, causing distinctive sores on the fish. But even more troubling, scientists say, is that similar sores have been seen on some fishermen and divers working in the water. No one knows its potency better than Joann Burkholder, the researcher who first isolated the new strain in her laboratory at North Carolina State University in Raleigh. Robert Hager on the possible harm to humans Burkholder says she was literally overcome by the fumes. "I lost my short-term memory for eight days," she says. "I had severe problems with reading, I couldn't read and I couldn't spell. "I couldn't even dial a telephone number because I couldn't remember the beginning of the number when I got to the end of it," she adds. And there have been other victims as well. Burkholder's assistant Howard Glasgow was overcome, as well as eight researchers in other labs. Pfiesteria is similar to organisms found in the red and brown tides that have temporarily closed many fishing grounds in the past. But the new strain could be even more dangerous, Burkholder says. "The toxin acts to strip the skin right off the fish," the North Carolina researcher says. "It drugs them, makes them lethargic and begins to paralyze them so that they usually die from muscle paralysis because they can't breath." The poison isn't a threat to people eating fish, because out of water, it loses potency within two hours. But it threatens people in the water. The organism attacks and destroys the skin, causing distinctive sores on the fish. On a laboratory slide, Pfiesteria attacks human blood cells and can also destroy nerve cells and stomach cells. The microorganism's been spotted from the bay of the Delaware River, south as far as Florida and the Gulf Coast city of Mobile, Ala. But most have appeared periodically in tidal rivers of North Carolina. Water there may be more stagnant _ held back from the sea by the state's Outer Banks and polluted by runoff from rapid development, sewage plants and hog farms. Experts say it could happen elsewhere. "It's cause for concern, cause for alarm," Burkholder says. "I think people should really begin to pay attention to what we're doing in water quality protection in coastal waters." ----End Forwarded Message(s)---- ... MONEY TALKS ... but all mine ever says is GOODBYE! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.30 * Origin: Texas Hot Air! * Flower Mound, TX (1:124/8057) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 186 SCUBA Ref: EA100000 Date: 05/28/97 From: DENNIS SEAVEY Time: 09:02am \/To: LAURENCE CHARLOT (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Shark repellent devic LC> The device is called "The Shark Pod" and it is a football sized LC> gadget that straps onto the diver's tank. There was a piece LC> about it on some cable TV program I saw a few weeks ago, and it LC> seemed to work pretty effectively. It's purely experimental, though, LC> and it may be a long time before a retail version of it appears LC> in your local dive store, so I wouldn't "hold my breath" waiting LC> for it . The pod contains the control circuitry and battery, then LC> there are a pair of electrodes on the divers hood and fins, that LC> act as an "antenna" to create a large egg-shaped electric field LC> that completely encompasses the diver and repels any shark that LC> comes in contact with the field. Any idea what the program was??? I would be most interested in following up. As I alluded in the earlier message it is my impression that the "organs of Lorenzi" (note that I may have the specific termenology incorrect but that the concept should be) we stimulated by electric fields. It has been shown over and over that sharks will mouth inanimate objects that are producing electric fields, simply because they are producing electric fields, even when those fields have no correlation to any known bio-electric field. Sudies on nurse sharks demonstrated that the sharks would dig up and swallow pieces of metal when galvanic action was taking place just as if they were swallowing a X ] Y ^ Y m [ ]] Y ^_ \ ^ ] ] Z ^ Y __ X y \ e,e \ Y _ i& _ ^ \ [ \ \ YV Z m, ] \ O+E *qO+ AK[ K K K :K K{X*QO+ENN N AK[X AK X*QO+ENN :K K{X* {X*Q : ] _ Y _ \ ^ crab. Well it looks like the ASCII grelins are atta )king so I'll sign off. Be wet and well. Dennis * SPITFIRE v3.51 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: BrickYard BBS Gonic, NH 603 332-0419 (1:132/243) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 186 SCUBA Ref: EA100001 Date: 05/31/97 From: AHMAD KHIARY Time: 10:15pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Breathing Hi every SAFE diver, I am diving in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia in the Red Sea. I am consuming my air too soon. How can I improve my breathing pattern and lessen the air intake ? Regards. Ahmad Khiary (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia) Internet ID : khiary@netbox.com --- * RoseReader 2.52 P007485 --- InterEcho 1.19 * Origin: SBBS. Jeddah, KSA +9662 667-2293 v.34 (2:542/100) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 186 SCUBA Ref: EA100002 Date: 05/31/97 From: BRETT MORGAN Time: 08:23pm \/To: DOROTHY FERRIS (Read 0 times) Subj: checking DF>With the coming of great scuba weather I thought I would check to see if my DF>mail feed is working correctly seeing that no one seems to be chatting. If DF>you see this message please respond. Hi Dorothy - I don't know where you dive, but for us here in sunny Saudi Arabia it's great scuba weather all year, (apart from the occasional sandstorm, that is). Regards Brett --- OLXWin 1.00a E-Mail address: brett.morgan@svcity.usbbs.com * Origin: Jam BBS SV City, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia (2:542/600) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 186 SCUBA Ref: EA200000 Date: 05/31/97 From: RICHARD HOFER Time: 12:31am \/To: LAURENCE CHARLOT (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Nitrox Hello Laurence! 27.05.97 (18:47) wrote Laurence Charlot to All: I am from austria and i was certified diveinstructor, but for a lack of time i had to return my license. Sorry if some of my words a strange but my english isn't that good. LC>I'd like to hear from anyone who has looked into getting LC>Nitrox certified, and has pro or con opinions about it. I considered nitrox diving a few times, but IMHO its rather expensive for a sportsdiver and it will only make sense if you are using a rebreathing system, with a normal regulator you will waste a lot of O2. LC>1. Is Nitrox really worth the cost of the certification, LC>tank and regulator cleaning for O2 service, and the high LC>cost of fills? IMHO *NO* , a normal tank and regulator handles the same partial pressure of O2 wether you use comp air or nitrox LC>$2.50 (I buy a 10-fill card for $25.00). LC>Does Nitrox really give that much more bottom time that LC>it is worth 4-5 times the cost of plain air for the tank fills? time table *without deco* : Depth AIR EANX32 EANX36 ----------------------------------------------------- 46' 72 min 167 min 251 min 64' 31 57 76 83' 18 30 38 100' 12 19 24 119' 9 14 ------- LC>3. What is the maximum safe depth for EANX 36%? I assume as above 100 feet. LC>that the increased risk of O2 toxicity means that the 130' LC>recreational depth limit for compressed air is reduced by As i recall the limit for comp air is 225 feet, thats where the partial pressure of O2 reaches 1.6 bar and gets "toxic", this pressure is also the limit for nitrox, depends on the mixture. The 90' (130') depth limit is used because of the N2 anesthetic LC>a substantial amount for Nitrox. I'm not a depth maniac, LC>by we usually hit 80'-90' in Cozumel while diving sites LC>like Palancar, Santa Rosa, and Punta Sur. Is this unsafe LC>on EANX 36%? If you got a good instruction and if you watch your depth its Ok, but beware an O2 intoxication is normaly lethal !!! be well and wet. Huhu, Ritschi --- CrossPoint v3.11 * Origin: Ich bin ein Lyfi-Point! (2:31/68.42)