--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300002Date: 10/31/97 From: GREER BRAXTLE Time: 08:11am \/To: TIM HERBST (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: The Second Amendment and the Supreme08:11:2010/31/97 TH> Whoever taught your government class was preaching 180 degrees off TH> the prevailing legal scholarship of this century. One wonders why. KC> When enough supposedly knowlegeable instructors says that "A" is KC> correct, a point will eventually be reached where the students cease KC> to question "A". TH> That's exactly why I encourage students to speculate about the motives f TH> their instructors. "Consider the source" is an essential TH> skill of scholarship. "Question Authority" is an essential skill of citizenship. It's a shame most educators don't dare have their students learn this in school. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: If you don't know your rights, you don't have any! (1:141/757) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300003Date: 10/31/97 From: TOM ENRIGHT Time: 08:44am \/To: RICHARD PRENTISS (Read 1 times) Subj: THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND -=> On 10-30-97 08:25 Richard Prentiss said to Jim Dunmyer <=- RP> Fido bytes again: RP> Taken from "They Register Cars, Don't They?" by Mark Moritz RP> Reprinted from the January/February 1991 The Firing Line - RP> The Second Amendment protects "the right of the people to RP> keep and bear Arms," and the Ninth and Tenth Amendments RP> provide that certain rights and powers are retained by and RP> reserved to "the people." See also U.S. Const., Amdt. 1, RP> ("Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of RP> the people peaceably to assemble"); Art. I, s 2, cl. 1 ("The RP> House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen RP> every second Year by the People of the several States") Excellent argument and well cited. This one goes in my archives for future use. T.E. - San Diego ... If you can't remember, the claymore is pointed towards you. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- GEcho 1.20/Pro * Origin: Guilde of High Sorcery (619)575-8249 San Diego, CA (1:202/1100) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300004Date: 10/28/97 From: EARNEST PADGETTE Time: 11:03pm \/To: HTOM TRITES (Read 1 times) Subj: Marines Shoot Mexica (clip) HT>EP> never know why the young man fired toward the Marines. If he HT>EP> was simply target shooting at rocks and such, on his own HT>EP> land; and the Marines were on his property *unbeknownst to HT>EP> him*...then we've got some problems. If he fired *at* the HT>EP> Marines, on his property, we still have some problems. HT>EP> Did the shooting take place on private property? HT>EP> Is there *any* indication the young man even saw the HT>EP> Marines? HT>Well, if he saw a concealed Marine outpost, there's another problem, too. HT>-=- htom@spare.tdkt.org -=- Neither a lawyer nor a LEO and not on TV. -=- I guess that's true. Sad, but true. Ernie P. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X I was born free; I WILL die free. --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Air 'n Sun 703-319-0714 2nd Am: VOID WHERE PROHIBITED (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300005Date: 10/28/97 From: EARNEST PADGETTE Time: 11:04pm \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Media blackout (clip) MS>EP> Only one problem, Matt. How many people *read* the Weelbash MS>EP> Weekly? And aren't those people *already* on our side, by in MS>EP> large? We need media outlets in *urban* areas; and those are MS>EP> denied to us. MS> Down here in North Carolina, most "throwaway" weeklies MS>are in urban areas such as Raleigh or Greensboro or MS>Winston-Salem. They are widely read by yuppie types and MS>by urban soccer mom types. Their core readership seems in MS>the late 20s-early 40s and college graduates, based on ads. MS>--- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) Hmmmm........ Thanks; Ernie P. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X I was born free; I WILL die free. --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Air 'n Sun 703-319-0714 2nd Am: VOID WHERE PROHIBITED (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300006Date: 10/28/97 From: EARNEST PADGETTE Time: 11:56pm \/To: JIM DUNMYER (Read 1 times) Subj: Media Blackout JD> > is, for the most part, on the NRAs' side to begin with. As for JD> > billboards, I categorically ignore them. I doubt that I'm alone JD> > in that attitude, so I question efficiency of that medium. JD>Actually, I notice billboards quite a lot. And I remember JD>one from years ago that the NRA had posted (my memory might JD>be weak, but here goes): JD>NRA: Shooting for a Million (with a big ol' target on it). JD>The 'million' was 'number of Members'. JD>I think the NRA is well over 2 million strong at present, JD>and was about 3 million before the unfortunate timing of JD>the "Jackbooted Thugs" comment hitting right at the time JD>that Tim McVeigh decided to do his thing. About 2.8 million at present. And membership is picking back up, now that the threat is picking up. As Senator Craig told Senator Feinstein (when she was laughing about NRA's membership falling): "You can fix that with one bad gun bill". Ernie P. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X I was born free; I WILL die free. --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Air 'n Sun 703-319-0714 2nd Am: VOID WHERE PROHIBITED (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300007Date: 10/29/97 From: EARNEST PADGETTE Time: 11:05pm \/To: SEAN RYAN (Read 1 times) Subj: The Second Amendment and SR>During the Spring Semester, I took a class on Government, SR>and learned something SR>I am surprised I never heard before. SR>There has been a lot of talk about the "right to bear arms" and such. You SR>can't take my guns, I have a Constitutional right to it". I find it SR>interesting that the Supreme Court has NEVER interpreted the Second Amendmen SR>as an individual's right to own firearms. It has ALWAYS interpreted it as t SR>right of a state to have a militia (National Guard). The men who *wrote* it were pretty clear, Sean. It's an individual right. EP SR>If a city wishes to, they can even outlaw firearms within their city limits. SR>It has been done, and is Constitutional! SR>I'm surprised I did not hear this BEFORE my Senior year in college :) SR>--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.22 The Constitution leaves some things up to the states. The courts have generally held that the Second Amendment only restricts the Federal Government; not the states. I don't agree, BTW; "shall not be infringed" seems pretty clear. Ernie P. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X I was born free; I WILL die free. --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Air 'n Sun 703-319-0714 2nd Am: VOID WHERE PROHIBITED (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300008Date: 10/31/97 From: JIM DUNMYER Time: 07:06am \/To: RICHARD PRENTISS (Read 1 times) Subj: THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND THE SUP > This posting from some years ago is repeated for your collective > edification and enlightenment. Its interesting to note that the > antis completely ignore this ruling.*Rich*Englewood*Colorado*Have an Rich, Thanks for posting that. I grabbed Wayne LaPierre's book from the shelf during my original reply; he has several [different] cites that emphasize the same thing. Even some that quote various anti-gunners who admit that the 2nd Amendment means what it says and stands in the way of total confiscation. It's extremely disturbing to hear that the opposite is being taught in the schools today. (not surprising, but disturbing nonetheless) <> --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300009Date: 10/30/97 From: MATT SMITH Time: 11:36pm \/To: BRIAN TIPLING (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Liberals BT> MS> Or as a local conservative state legislator puts it "A BT> liberal is BT> MS> someone who wants to do his ideas with your money". BT> BT> Or my version: "A liberal is someone who can't make it on his BT> own..." Most can't. Look at First Lady Bill, a man who has never held a private-sector job or a civil-service job for more than a year in his life after college, and whose total post-college life has been in elected office! --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: The purpose of the 2nd? To stop Gov't Tyranny!!! (1:3644/8) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300010Date: 10/29/97 From: MATT SMITH Time: 10:55pm \/To: SCOTT SCHEIBE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: NRA General RKBA Digest 307 SS> As reported in Wednesday's Special FAX Alert, the Clinton- SS> Gore Administration is planning to issue a directive to ban SS> certain types of foreign-made firearms from coming into this SS> country. We believe the White House will move to stop all SS> commerce in certain semi-automatic firearms that conform in every SS> way to the legal requirements set forth in both the Clinton Gun SS> Ban of 1994 and the 1989 import ban. Sources also suggest that SS> the directive will order the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and SS> Firearms to convene a study group to further narrow the scope of SS> firearms that qualify for importation under the "sporting SS> purposes" test. Given past action, a ban on all imported handguns SS> is not unlikely. Don't cry wolf: all I see in wire articles on this issue is Uzis, Galils, and similar redone versions of military lookalikes that don't resemble most handguns. --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: The purpose of the 2nd? To stop Gov't Tyranny!!! (1:3644/8) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 185 RIGHT/BEAR ARMS Ref: EF300011Date: 11/01/97 From: BROOKS GELFAND Time: 12:31pm \/To: EARNEST PADGETTE (Read 1 times) Subj: The Second Amendment and On 10-29-97 23:05 Re: The Second Amendment and Earnest Padgette wrote: SR>During the Spring Semester, I took a class on Government, SR>and learned something SR>I am surprised I never heard before. SR>There has been a lot of talk about the "right to bear arms" and such SR>can't take my guns, I have a Constitutional right to it". I find it SR>interesting that the Supreme Court has NEVER interpreted SR>the Second Amendmen SR>as an individual's right to own firearms. It has ALWAYS SR>interpreted it as t SR>right of a state to have a militia (National Guard). EP> The men who *wrote* it were pretty clear, Sean. It's an EP> individual right. EP SR>If a city wishes to, they can even outlaw firearms SR>within their city limits. SR>It has been done, and is Constitutional! SR>I'm surprised I did not hear this BEFORE my Senior year in college : SR>--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.22 EP> The Constitution leaves some things up to the states. The court EP> have generally held that the Second Amendment only restricts th EP> Federal Government; not the states. I don't agree, BTW; "shall EP> not be infringed" seems pretty clear. Ernie P. EP>___ Not, quite, Ernie. Originally, the Bill of Rights applied only to the Federal Government, which is why many of the states wrote the same guarantees into their state constitutions. It was only after the passage of the 14th Amendment that the guarantees of the of the Bill of Rights, through the principle of Incorporation, was applied to limit the powers of states. This principle was not thoroughly enunciated by the Court until quite recently, after most of the RTKBA cases were decided. Brooks Gelfand gelfand@failurea.fail.com ___ * PW * Hardware: The part you kick! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The Common Sense BBS, FIDO-PRN-OS2NET & More (1:215/705)