--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400004 Date: 10/31/96 From: RT POLLOCK Time: 02:44pm \/To: BRUCE JONES (Read 8 times) Subj: TRADEMARK SHOW Re: your quoted text about UL: BJ> This is what I'm refering to and if you'll notice in your qoute it BJ> states that "The Manufacture/distributor Guarantees a refund" not that BJ> UL has Approved the product. according to the "seal". I am not trying BJ> to argue a point only to clear a misconception had by most folks, BJ> inculding myself. Up here in Canada, we have what is known as the CSA (Canadian Standards Association): on the surface, it does much the same as what UL does for you folks down there, with one exception: electrical products _without_ CSA Approval cannot legally be used. In Ontario, our Ontario Hydro utility does issue time-limited approvals on a select range of (electrical) contrivances in lieu of a CSA Approval and listing. Such products must soon be able to meet the full CSA criteria before it can be put to any wider a marketplace (ie-beyond the Ontario borders) within the country. CSA Approvals and Listings are available for non-electrical products as well. We have come to regard CSA Approvals as having the "force of law" behind them, and this aspect more than anything else practically assures that products meet or exceed manufacturers' claims for performances and diversities of applications. Obviously, a CSA Approval carries a lot more weight than either UL or Good Housekeeping are capable of providing Consumers. To tell the truth, I look at UL as being on par with the "approvals" given by (for example) our CMA (Canadian Manufacturers' Association). In this instance, CMA is industry-driven and enforced, similar but not quite to the same degree as Mil-Spec'd or NATO'd products: it is merely a selection of predefined Standards that are met by manufacturers, no more and no less. To say that a product "meets GH Standards" is really pretty much the same as determining that Stanley tools are somehow "better" that those from Fuller Brush, for example. It boils down to a matter of (individual) tastes...and requirements. It's all just a simple case of attractive marketing ! Semper Fi RTP ~~~ PGPBLUE 3.0 --- * Origin: Alpha City BBS, Oshawa, Ontario (905)579-6302 (1:229/420) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400005 Date: 10/31/96 From: RT POLLOCK Time: 02:44pm \/To: DICK ROEBELT (Read 8 times) Subj: Faxing [1/2] >>> Part 1 of 2... DR> What you fail to take into consideration is a federal law which DR> prohibits you sending unsolicited fax's. Dick, care to comment on how the Law treats unsolicited faxing across international borders ? Is the onus on the "originating" side to prosecute complaints or on the "receiving" side ? I can understand how things might work if both sides have similar laws regulating this aspect, but how do things get done if one side hasn't anything to match ? Ahhhhh, but here I see that we get into the "political" aspects...and everybody knows that not even politics can stand up to the Law...or can it ? Any case law you can relate ? DR> Federal courts in two jurisdictions have heard cases revolving DR> around this law. The end results were not the same. Nor was it DR> firmly established that Congress had any jurisdiction whatsoever in DR> this regard concerning strictly intrastate (vs interstate) faxing. An interesting aspect: jurisdiction. About as confusing as anything that your Congress (and my Parliament) can drum-up. Too remiscient of the old "pass-the-buck" game that kids play ! And perhaps twice as convoluting where/when Technology is concerned these days. DR> Either way, you take up a valuable resource of another w/o DR> permission. And to do so just may push someone over the edge to file DR> suit against you - both civilly and criminally. Criminally ? Civilly, I can understand, but unless such electronic communications contained a message of a treasonous nature urging civil disobedience or other insurrection then there is not much consideration for criminal litigations. Oh wait a min: wire fraud ! Yes, that would be a situation to launch criminal proceedings... DR> Since I do a lot of pro se / pro per work (when time allows) do you DR> want to face someone like me inside of a federal courtroom for your DR> unlawful actions? Your atty costs will be guaranteed to be in the DR> neighborhood of $10,000.00. It could be even hairier if the plaintiff DR> was represented by competent counsel. How much direct mail could you DR> have gotten for that amt. of cash? You're talking REALLY EXPENSIVE ! 10-Grand could net a lot better use in * my * hands than in the bank account of some Legal Beagle...anytime ! I pay my Counsel _enough_ already... DR> And I am truly surprised that no one has filed a complaint against DR> you with whatever regulatory agency that has oversight of your DR> profession. That includes your competition ratting you out. Sometimes the competition is about as friendly as a mountain cat... "unfair competition" and all the rest... DR> Sometimes going "on the cheap" may be far more expensive than you DR> could contemplate. TOO TRUE ! DR> The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 makes it unlawful to DR> not identify yourself and your calling number on a fax. Now here's something I've never given much thought towards. There have been times when I've sent faxes without any source identifications: most had been solicited, and therefore expected by receiving parties. I've always looked at such identifiers as simply being a means to discern a general locale from which a message had originated. This would mean that if I were visiting down Stateside and sent faxes from my notebook/laptopper that I would _have_ to change the identification/origin headers to reflect the hotel/motel (or phone booth) number that I was staying at for whatever short duration of time might be involved. (Easier to send email and let a central communications system send-out an appropriate fax message...) With the available software, it's an easy act to install a false (source) number and originator's name. DR> What some of us do (for revenge) is to completely color several DR> pieces of paper and tape them together and "return" the fax. That way DR> we strip you out of toner and paper by sending a "loop" fax to DR> you...esp. in the middle of the night. The gist of that is hoping DR> we get a message across that we do not welcome intrusive faxes. Though I commiserate with you here, I do find that this is NOT necessarily the "best way" to fight back. There is, somehow, something "criminal" in that action... Unusual to find an attorney advocating the "taking of the law into one's own hands", I think. DR> Good luck with your endeavors and PLEASE, do not take what I say as DR> a put down of your business practices. Each of us has to make that DR> personal decision as to how we solicit. They are merely a commentary DR> on your post and a warning of [possible] future events for which you DR> may not be prepared or even aware of. Mind if I "borrow" that CYA ? It's good, really good, Dick ! I'd hate to see it encoded in legalese...... ! DR> A little rebellion now and then is a good thing.-- T.Jefferson In Thomas Jefferson's time it was fine. I dunno if it applies today, >>> Continued to next message... --- * Origin: Alpha City BBS, Oshawa, Ontario (905)579-6302 (1:229/420) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400006 Date: 10/31/96 From: RT POLLOCK Time: 02:44pm \/To: DICK ROEBELT (Read 8 times) Subj: Faxing [2/2] >>> Part 2 of 2... though.... Semper Fi RTP ~~~ PGPBLUE 3.0 --- * Origin: Alpha City BBS, Oshawa, Ontario (905)579-6302 (1:229/420) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400007 Date: 10/31/96 From: RT POLLOCK Time: 02:44pm \/To: AUGUST ABOLINS (Read 8 times) Subj: Computers AA> Granted, exposure to computers as a TOOL is a good thing. But don't AA> try to sell it as a way out of SS. This is PART of the problem that I have with our provincial government "selling out" Welfare-placed students to the commercial "schools" (ie - CDI, TSB and others)... Many of these people have been "set-up" with (false) promises of (immediate) employment after graduation from these places by well-intentioned social workers. I have my doubts for the ability of any social worker that can readily - and effectively - discern a "good" commercial school from the rest of the pack, especially where any form of Technology is concerned as the asis of training ! I've heard of "specialty schools" that tend to place more emphasis on ehavior acceptance (of candidates with perspective employers) than to (seriously) concentrate on any (educational) aspect of computer operations. Many of these places, IMHO, are practicising a most deceptive form of "education" in that I've met quite a few "graduates" who are so damnably more politically correct than they are knowledgable about the applications that run on PC's. The farce here is that these "schools" have been "approved for use" by unknowing, over- worked (and, possibly, under-paid) social workers who, if they are at all lucky, may just barely come to understand how to originate email over the internal office network from the "insides" of some wordprocessor at a PC placed on their desks. It's one thing to be attentive to statistical information alluding the number of graduates placed in meaningful positions...and quite another thing to know the durations for such placements afterwards. For example, I could tell you that I had placed 1,000 people per year in jobs upon their graduations, and that would carry very well with most folks. BUT, what I'm _not_ about to talk about freely with you is the number of former students that had come back to me seeking another opportunity....and another....and another ! THAT number might over-shadow the rate of success that I had alluded to in the first place, and give the impression that "something's wrong here". It would also bring up another negative face: why are so many coming back, time and again ? The concern here is that welfare-placed students to any of these "specialty /commercial schools" _deserve_ better than another opportunity to become tate -subsidised. Too many have been led to believe that these places are prepared to really ensure that the employment opportunities that they list are long- lasting opportunities offering both professional and personal growths such that ex-welfare students are enabled a chance to substain their own growths over the long-term. As far as I'm concerned, the best place for instruction with Technology remains the community colleges: the "commerical schools" are perhaps better with retraining people who have already been taught the basics so that they may go on, upwards, towards the attainment of an improved lifestyle. I'll also go on record to suggest that any degree of "behaviour acceptance" be left solely to the concerned individuals and the professional people who know exactly what they are doing. Certainly, as an employer I would _prefer_ people that I can work with, but it's of even greater importance that I have employees that know what they are doing with the resources I'm able to afford them. This is a point that many social workers - and even those at the "specialty/commercial schools" - have, I believe, come to practically ignore over time. Just as software is to a PC - tools - so it is with employers and employees. Though methodologies may differ in some aspects, I don't really care how the work gets done: I just want the work done in as efficiently and timely a fashion as possible. Semper Fi RTP ~~~ PGPBLUE 3.0 ... Even crime wouldn't pay if the Government ran it. --- * Origin: Alpha City BBS, Oshawa, Ontario (905)579-6302 (1:229/420) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400008 Date: 10/31/96 From: RT POLLOCK Time: 02:44pm \/To: AUGUST ABOLINS (Read 8 times) Subj: Answering machine AA> Backups take time. How much of that time would you value to be in AA> excessive $100 already? Yes...backing-up data can be time-consuming, but it's still cheaper than losing important data ...forever ! And it certainly beats having to pay a fast typist to replace such records. You wanna gripe about the time it takes to perform backups, you go right ahead and gripe. Maybe by the time you've finished all the precious data on your machine will have been vanquished...and you soon learn about the EXPENSE that professional data restorations can bring down on you. I can assure you that it would be far in excess of the 100-bucks or so that a UPS might've cost you in the first place...! Instead of griping, you'll be in a position to groan really loudly... Are you aware of a technique known as "unattended backup" ? The technique is used commonplace at many offices todays...and the investment involved is actually quite cost-effective for many. Bundled backup software that comes with many tape backup drives allow for timed backups under the particular schema that you might actually require. No longer do you need to be concerned about the costs of assigning an employee to take dedicated data backups: it can all be setup through a one-time effort and last until the day the machine croaks on it's last byte. As some old-timers might say. "...it's automatic...". When coupled with current UPS technology, unattended backups can serve to provide upwards of 90% of system (data) protection, the other 10% being attributed to "human error" and peripherial electrical/physical/mechanical breakdowns. Any system considered "mission critical" ought to have both forms of protections, and make no mistake about it, even SOHO PC's can be considered "mission critical" machines, especially when so many SOHO's have their machines as the core of their operations. Semper Fi RTP ~~~ PGPBLUE 3.0 ... For sale, Parachute. Used once. Opens on impact. Small stain. --- * Origin: Alpha City BBS, Oshawa, Ontario (905)579-6302 (1:229/420) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400009 Date: 10/31/96 From: RT POLLOCK Time: 02:44pm \/To: DICK ROEBELT (Read 8 times) Subj: LEGAL WEB SITE EF>We have a lot of Legal information that you can obtain. EF>A lot of it is free to download.Barrister's Legal Files. DR> Can we assume you have secured [copyright] permission to post DR> those? Are you suggesting that the Laws made by a government FOR the people are copyrighted ? Who/what should this guy do ? I mean, I agree that if he's scanning actual case law at his site that there would be someone/something from which he could obtain permission to carry on (since there are various professional publications that print these abounding), but if he's simply providing an information service to the public about what the law is (State, Federal or International), then I fail to see your point. Who owns case law ? The government, the respective jurispudence of a State or Province (ie - the Bar) or some legal society ? Is not case law put-over (following the delivery of a judgement) to the Public Domain - an aspect which legal practsioners deliberately make difficult for the Public to freely access ? Is Law considered "intellectual property" ? Would it make any difference if he were a practising lawyer and decided to open up his own office's resources to the Public, noting credit to the software publisher as a curtesy ? I mean, technically, if his office already owns a(n unlimited User) LAN license to such software, then would he not merely be enlarging the LAN's "workspace" ? What would the circumstances become if he were to charge an access fee to each dial-up caller to that same, well, "database", I wonder ? (Agreed, such a move by any Legal Beagle might be tantamount to a cutting of the (fiscal) jugular: I mean, if everything were so open, where would such a lawyer then find his\her business ?) Semper Fi RTP ... I know what you're thinking; I can hear the echoes in your head. ~~~ PGPBLUE 3.0 --- * Origin: Alpha City BBS, Oshawa, Ontario (905)579-6302 (1:229/420) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400010 Date: 10/31/96 From: AUGUST ABOLINS Time: 02:03am \/To: EDWARD FLEMING (Read 8 times) Subj: LEGAL WEB SITE On Fri Oct 25 at 23:10, EDWARD of 1:282/1040 wrote to ALL: EF> Come visit our Web Page at: EF> http://www1.minn.net/~dc_angel/dc_angel.htm EF> We have a lot of Legal information that you can obtain. EF> A lot of it is free to download.Barrister's Legal Files. EF> At present we are working on preparing a copy of EF> "Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England" EF> For the free files go to Legal Beagle's Page. Your "page" is probably fine and dandy. But I didn't join this echo to read web-page ads. Is it too much to ask to limit internet-stuff to the ernet? ...AA --- timEd/2 1.10 * Origin: The world is not enough. (1:253/60) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400011 Date: 10/31/96 From: AUGUST ABOLINS Time: 02:38am \/To: ED DAVIS (Read 8 times) Subj: UPS On Sun Oct 27 at 13:16, Ed of 1:261/1002 wrote to Nolan: > At $150, or less, per unit I'd say that was _cheap_ insurance for a > $2k+ computer upon which my business depends. ED> A UPS does not protect the entire computer, just the data you are ED> currently adding (or using) in the event of a power failure. By ED> making frequent backups, and saving my work frequently as I go, I ED> can restore (or even re-do) missing work in a matter of minutes ED> after a power failure, thus saving myself the cost of the UPS unit. Power "failure" can take the form of brown-outs or power surges. Both can potentially damage your hardware. A good brand UPS can protect the equipment connected to it. ED> Not cost effective for me, but it is for you. Different strokes ED> for different folks... Up to you. ...AA a.abolins@ieee.ca --- timEd/2 1.10 * Origin: The world is not enough. (1:253/60) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400012 Date: 10/31/96 From: AUGUST ABOLINS Time: 02:19am \/To: GLEN GODIER (Read 8 times) Subj: Faxing On Sun Oct 27 at 08:41, Glen of 1:250/234 wrote to All: GG> Although the negative response was very small compared to the total GG> amount faxed out (may be 10 in 2,000), I still have some GG> comprehensiveness (?) about using this same form of advertising. GG> The system is cheaper than mailing the letters out and everything GG> is handled by the PC with little human intervention.. Isn't there a law in place that prohibits sending unsolicited faxes to one? GG> (I guess I'm just "scared" of some irate businessperson knowing my GG> telephone number (and address from the letter) tracking me down GG> and inflicting great pain on my home business and body.) I would assume that unless you have evidence that the recipient of the fax specifically requested the information, you might indeed be a fine target for a legal dispute. ...AA --- timEd/2 1.10 * Origin: The world is not enough. (1:253/60) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 184 HOME OFFICE Ref: DF400013 Date: 10/31/96 From: AUGUST ABOLINS Time: 02:25am \/To: MARC GAULT (Read 8 times) Subj: Answering Machine On Mon Oct 28 at 12:14, Marc of 1:133/9018 wrote to Gloria: MG> Regarding "Call Notes" which Bellsouth calls "Memory Call,"...it's MG> got one HUGE problem. With distinctive ringing, I'm able to give MG> clients a fax phone# which costs me about $4 a month. But...by MG> accident or on purpose...the programming wizards at the phone MG> company just aren't (heh...heh...heh) able to only route voice MG> calls to the the voicemail system...fax calls to my separate and MG> distinct fax number go there, too. I have used distinctive ring services for a BBS. I also subscribed to the voice mail service. Only calls to my voice "number" were redirected to the voice mail system. Calls to the BBS "number" got a busy signal. Sounds like they gave you TWO voice mail boxes for the price of one. A call to their technical support should clear up the problem. ...AA --- timEd/2 1.10 * Origin: The world is not enough. (1:253/60)