--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01171 Date: 07/26/96 From: JOHN ALLEN Time: 06:24pm \/To: GREG COBB (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Car Audio et al. Hello Greg, I do not wish to debate, nor do I make my comments as a slap at anyone interested in Car Audio. I have never been in a conversation or debate about this topic. Nor have I ever before made ANY comment on the opic. My message to Bonnie was strictly an observation and suggestion after watching the ongoing debate and broadsides being traded by long time Echo participants. I do not consider myself close minded. I just believe in having a place for everything and everybody. And when people cannot get along, as they have recently exhibited, it is time for change. I have not taken your remarks and name calling personally, and I would hope that you can see your way into not taking my observations personally. Cheers, John --- AdeptXBBS v1.07g (Registered) * Origin: Tempe, AZ USA (602)491-5285 (1:114/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01172 Date: 07/25/96 From: JOHN BOYD Time: 10:23pm \/To: LEWIS COLON (Read 4 times) Subj: Ugggggly LC>-> Trivia question: Who makes the UGLIEST consumer equip? LC>IMHO - NAD LC>Reminds me of a bad military dream...... Nawwwww... The original Hafler DH-101 preamp: Even too ugly to qualify as "So ugly it's cute". J.B./2 * SLMR 2.1a * "We are Windows '95 of Borg, you will be..."...... --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: ZAP! * HST/v32terbo * 1-912-788-5258 (1:3611/6.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01173 Date: 07/27/96 From: DEWAYNE STUART Time: 05:18pm \/To: BONNIE GOODWIN (Read 4 times) Subj: Just an analogy (wuz car) -=> Quoting Bonnie Goodwin to Greg Cobb <=- BG> Not at this moment, but if the Car Audio echo becomes a reality, BG> discussion here on that topic will be considered a duplication and BG> traffic on that refered to Car Audio. Having been a rather harried lurker, and not having had the time to respond to any of this, I now have the chance to say that I think a Car Audio echo (asbestos lined, even.;-) is a good thing. Too much ranting, not enough useful info/good questions/etc.. My first 'decent' car system actually had a 'home' amplifier in it, as, at the time, there wasn't any other option for a clean amp with reasonable headroom. Said amp was an Awia 'Compo' series 30 watt/Chan unit. (Somewhat modified.) Got plenty loud, and sounded nice. 16 years later, I'm running a CD head end, and a 25 watt/chan amp. Soon(ish) to go to a 50 w/c unit, as the acoustic suspension speakers I use are not terribly efficient. All on the cheap, and all with an eye to clean, non-fatiguing sound.. Loud enuff to get out of the noise, but not to be a noise source of it's own..;-) BG> That may be my opinion, but I'll stand by it. Any peak over about BG> 130dB is a total waste for any real world need. 162dB is the record?? Erk.. I work at an airport, and I deal with plenty of loud.. Now I hear that some of these (5th amendment called here) actually _desire_ to and have the ability to out-shout jet engines?? What a great achievement.. BG> take for a car to shake itself apart? Does anyone REALLY care? Sounds BG> like typical macho BS to me like having 2000 horsepower out of a VW BG> bug. I'm not impressed in the slightest. I'm suprised that anyone with BG> any degree of intelligence is. Actually, here's my analogy, now that we're at the horsepower stage.. I owned two 1970 cars. An 850cc Fiat Spyder, and a 390cu Ford LTD. Any two cylinders in the Ford out-sized the Fiat's total engine.. But when it came down to performance, the Ford could whip the Fiat in a straight-out dash for the hills. Once the hills showed up, tho, the Fiat took over. The car people wanted to drive was the Fiat. The Ford had the Bass.. Lots of it. The Fiat had definition.. (Of course, I neglected to mention that my car stereo system has 4 woofers.. Pretty impressive, eh? Each one is 4" edge-to-edge.. I may add in an 8" or so, if I can convince myself that it doesn't muddy things up..;-) Oh, well.. Unlike the young lady that waited on me at Subway a few years back, who must have been close to 18 years of age... I can still hear most things. She had the store radio way up, and was damn close to stone deaf. I won't go into what my order came out like.. But it _was_ a sandwich..;-) And the folks who drive by my house... Often... I hurts my head and I've got a 1920's house's walls between me and the noise.. A few weeks driving in one of those unprotected, and you'd be unfit to say a word about Hi-Fidelity.. You wouldn't know it if it bit you.. (And it would have to bite, 'cause you sure couldn't hear it!) Off the soapbox.. Back to the garage fulla too much electronics.. Yours, the somewhat bemused, DRS ... Filk Music is folk music with the parody(sic) bit set! VX Golden/drs --- * Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 * --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: MotherBoard III /586 (1:215/66.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01174 Date: 07/26/96 From: DANIEL ARDELINE Time: 01:52pm \/To: MATT ION (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: CAR AUDIO...NEED A LITTLE HELP, I'M 13:52:0007/26/96 MI> Good grief, that's some SERIOUS shoe-horning. MI> Did I mention that my T-60s are covered by the Accord's *factory MI> grilles*? =) MI> Put simply, I wound up building up the forward side of the ring MI> structures with two layers of 3/8" foam weatherstrip (that stick-on MI> stuff that you can get in rolls at any car-accessories place), then MI> mounting them from below. MI> The tweeters I'm running with them (2" cones from an old set of MI> cheapie Realistic home speakers -- what the hey, they sound real MI> smoooooooth!) were mounted on top of the factory mount's main MI> component (where the OEM drivers would normally mount), the grille MI> then screwed on normally from below, and the whole assembly fastened MI> to the deck normally. The woofers were then slung with 3" drywall MI> screws from below as well. It's ugly, but it does the trick! If this isn't serious shoehorning, I don't know what is. But hey, you can still use the factory grilles with it. MI> Now, if I could just figure out a way to put these Quart 2016s in MI> those factory mounts instead... muahahaha. Why won't you just buy a pair of speakers that fits the factory size like most people? Oh no, that would be too easy. --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Blue Beam,Stoney Creek,Ontario,Canada 905-662-5784 (1:244/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01175 Date: 07/27/96 From: GORDON GILBERT Time: 01:14pm \/To: JOHN ALLEN (Read 4 times) Subj: NewsGroups On 27-Jul-96 06:31:00 John Allen wrote this to Bonnie Goodwin about CAR AUDIO ET AL.: JA> many people from many different walks of life, all over the world. JA> We even have a following in Russia now! I communicate with one JA> gentleman via E-Mail who advised that a PC in one of the few High JA> End Audio stores near Moscow either keeps updated printouts of our JA> Audio Echo or actually has it available for customers to browse. Wow. Didn't know I was writing a column. 8^) JA> If Car Audio remains, at the traffic levels and VOLUME we JA> have recently JA> seen, we will be chasing away the very people that we wish to keep I would definitely prefer that Car Audio had its own echo. I'm personally not interested in a lot of the car discussion material and so would rather see it separate, but not because car audio is itself uninteresting. Otherwise, I would have just left the factory stereo in my car. However, now that I find my car stereo acceptable sounding, I would rather invest my time and money in home audio. I don't neccessarily find the two areas incompatible, just largely so due to the crowds they tend to attract. A serious audiophile isn't going to do his serious listening on the freeway (at least I don't think he *should*) I sit and listen to my stereo *instead of* tv, not *with it.* I can't give music my full attention if I'm doing a crossword puzzle and likewise if I'm watching the road. I can't close my eyes and picture the soundstage while going 65 on the Interstate. (at least you'll hope I'm not if you're in the lane next to me :) There are some people who can't just sit and listen to music. They need to be doing something else (visual stimulation for instance and are trying to read a magazine at the same time, etc). I personally can't consider that very serious listening. You don't read a magazine at a live symphony concert, yet some people (I'm related to one) could pay attention to a live concert but couldn't sit and listen to a stereo for 5 minutes straight without doing something else to save their life.... To these people a Car Stereo is *perfect* because they get physical and musical stimulation at the same time (drive and listening). My problem with that is you can't devote your full attention to listening that way. That's just my opinion on the matter and one of the primary reasons I prefer to invest in a home system much more than a car one. (I also don't want to have to go out to the garage and sit in my car to listen to music if I'm at home and want to hear some quality music or go for a drive just to listen to the stereo.) JA> The reason that Echos like Audio will continue despite the JA> Internet is JA> that the Newsgroups on the Internet are not Moderated, and you have JA> to read through 9 miles of off topic JUNK, insults, noise, JA> arguements and nonsense before finding something on topic. With the Well, I agree about *certain* Usenet Newsgroups. I thought I'd try rec.audio.opinion again only to find the most childish message I'd ever seen from a green pen toting whacko. (basically he acted like Beavis in reply to someone's valid opinion about not hearing a difference in cd players when levels were matched exactly). I ditched that newsgroup for the 2nd time that very day. On the other hand, *some* Usenet groups *are* moderated and have much higher quality content. I *highly* suggest you take a look at rec.audio.high.end. Sometimes, it's almost /too/ scientific. It has its share of "Lp vs. CD" discussions to be sure, but they're much more polite (impolite messages usually get sent back to the owner by the moderators for editing). It's really only a matter of starting a topic you're interested in. There are *many* professionals and scientists on there as well, offering much technical insight into various discussions. It's the *only* audio newsgroup I'm currently reading. Traffic there is typically 30-100 messages a day, depending. I just set my offline reader by subject and hit the skip button on topics I'm not interested in. The moderators typically send an approval notice and post the message or send your message back (I've never gotten a message back) within 24 hours. So, there is a delay like on Fido, but only 1/3-1/6 as long. Given the relatively slow traffic on here about high end audio, it's refreshing to see a newsgroup dedicated to it. The green pen folk generally dislike it because there are so many scientific debunkers on there that won't let them attribute opinions to scientific nonsense. I'm not saying they're not welcome, only that they can't get away with bogus scientific claims. (They're in full force on rec.audio.opinion and one reason why there's so much drivel on *that* newsgroup.) Anyways, I'd reccomend rec.audio.high.end to anyone that can get Usenet. It's far from perfect, but it's a vast improvement over most of the unmoderated audio groups and certainly a welcome addition (at least for me) to the Fido Audio echo. Give it a try for a week. I've talked to several Carver Speaker owners of all models, seen plenty of Legacy owners, Martin-Logan, B&W, Magnepan, you name it, someone's got it (usually several). Best of all, it's about *high end audio* (not neccessarily meaning high price), not cheap receivers or car audio (they have their own newsgroups). It's even separate from professional recording. (There's a separate group for Bonnie's speciality :) -- ...If hot air rises, why isn't Rush in orbit around Venus? --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: CanCom TBBS - Canton, OH (1:157/629) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01176 Date: 07/28/96 From: JOHN ALLEN Time: 07:50am \/To: DREW HOHMANN (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: CAR AUDIO > WOW!!! I only wish I could've gotten all that for $100 :-) My > grandfather will soon be getting a pair of AR-2A speakers in mint > condition, and it's a very good chance that I will eventually get my > hands on them. Very, very nice stuff. Some of the stuff they built back > then was amazing. So what are the specs on the AR12 speakers? The only > Acoustic Research speakers I'm semi-familiar with are the old AR-1, > AR-2, and AR-3's. I'd love to get my hands on a pair of AR-3A's. They > still beat most of the speakers produced today. Not on par with today's > top of the line, but well worth having. A friend has an original pair of the 2As. They are really extraordinary! I was most surprised by the weight. Thay are made like tanks. I don't know what they did to maintain them, but even the surrounds are in excellent condition. It was also surprising to find such a small acoustically suspended pair of speakers reproducing the bass that these do. We have not really measured them with a meter, but my guess would be that they have plenty of usable bass down into the 40/50 Hz area. For unvented bookshelf speakers, that is truly excellent. Needless to say he won't part with them. I have offered trades for everything under the sky including my first born son and players to be named at a later date, and couldn't get a fleck of interest. If I am not mistaken I believe that the 2 series is the one that AR is now reproducing as part of some sort of anniversary special. I would imagine they are bringing a pretty good price. Cheers, John --- AdeptXBBS v1.07g (Registered) * Origin: Tempe, AZ USA (602)491-5285 (1:114/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01177 Date: 07/28/96 From: JOHN ALLEN Time: 07:58am \/To: LEWIS COLON (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Blue book > -> Is there anything like a Blue Book of Audio gear from which dealers judge > -> value? > The Orion Blue Book for audio is the industry guide. Most any dealer of used Is this an annual or quarterly type periodical that the shops subscribe to like the Blue Book versions for automobiles? I wouldn't mind tracking them down and buying one to have a reference point to compare the classifieds to. Cheers, John --- AdeptXBBS v1.07g (Registered) * Origin: Tempe, AZ USA (602)491-5285 (1:114/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01178 Date: 07/25/96 From: LEWIS COLON Time: 09:32pm \/To: DENNIS JENKINS (Read 4 times) Subj: Ugggggly -> Trivia question: Who makes the UGLIEST consumer equip? -> -> LC>IMHO - NAD -> LC>Reminds me of a bad military dream...... -> -> I have a Hafler DH 500 which is not too pretty. Actually, that piece matches most of the NAD equipment I was thinking of to a tee! At least it is plain with just a neon rocker switch....just think what t might look like with some type of metering on the front. :-) --- * Origin: Lunar NetWork BBS Node #3 313-480-2853 vFC (1:2200/213) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01179 Date: 07/25/96 From: LEWIS COLON Time: 09:45pm \/To: DAVID MARHEINE (Read 4 times) Subj: Smegwood kimba drive -> JS> I agree totally. It would result in more organized echoes. -> Changing the Subject Line to reflect the content of the message can also -> help. ;-) Maybe, but had it not been for your post, I wouldn't have had the chuckle ver it I got upon paying attention to it! --- * Origin: Lunar NetWork BBS Node #3 313-480-2853 vFC (1:2200/213) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 183 AUDIO Ref: DBY01180 Date: 07/23/96 From: ANTHONY WALKER Time: 12:4 am \/To: JAMIE HOWARTH (Read 4 times) Subj: Stereo! Hi, just a quick note to suggest that you don't get a high speed dubbing feature on your stereo, whatever you may get...... It is harsh on taped, stretching them slightly, and causing other damage to them. Also the reproduction is not as good on high speed as on normal speed....... Hope this sounds useful... Jarvis, Jarviester Electronics and Computers. PS. what wattage amp are you looking to get? (and what sort of speakers (2 way, 3 way, surround)) Are you looking for a subwoofer? --- M A X's BBS 1.54 * Origin: Studio-101 BBS +61-3-9704-8260 (3:638/111)