--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAB00001Date: 06/04/97 From: KENNETH NEWMAN Time: 12:44pm \/To: KENNETH ABRAMS (Read 0 times) Subj: GENTLE GIANT On 05-31-97 KENNETH ABRAMS wrote to KENNETH NEWMAN... KA> KN> Kraan _Live_ KA> KA> What's this like? Bloody amazing, really good. Lots of extended jams that really showcase Hatler's excellent bass playing. Some really Gong-like stuff on here, too, like the version of "Kraan Arabia." Let's put it this way, this is the one I usually recommend Kraan neophytes to start with. KA> I've got one studio album by them, _Let It Out_. KA> It's not bad. IMO Kraan never did a bad album, but if you liked _Let it Out_ you would love _Live_. KA> KN> _Yessongs_ is a fine triple live (another category entirely, see KA> KN> Santana _Lotus_, Hawkwind _Space Ritual_), KA> KA> When did _Space Ritual_ become a triple? Just wondering, since I've KA> got the vinyl (2 LPs) and the CD (2 discs). I defer to the Hawklord, as your knowledge is more trustworthy than mine on this subject. I remember buying the album some 25 years ago and then instantly putting the cover up on my wall as a poster (What can I say, Stacia fueled a few fantasies, and I'm probably not alone in this.....) and it folded out like a triple album cover, so for some reason my brain got infested with the idea that it was a triple. Mind, it drags on and on like a triple album, but I kind of like that. Cheers, Kenneth --- * OFFLINE 1.58 * I have .25 sectors per sector. --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff238/x] * Origin: OnLine Now Thunder Bay ON, Canada (807)-345-1531 (1:229/510) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAB00002Date: 06/06/97 From: JOHN GIANNINI Time: 03:08pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Looking for sleeves for 45's I am trying to find a source where I can buy sleeves for 45 RPM records inexpensively. I need about 300 sleeves, and was hoping to find a place or person who had them for maybe 2 or 3 cents per sleeve. These are just the plain white paper sleeves for 45's. A friend suggested I check the record collector magazine "Goldmine", which I did. I found one place that has them, but to get a non-ripoff price, you have to get like, 1000 of the sleeves. This place carries not only record stuff, but bags and boards for comics, cases for CDs - all manner of storage containers for all kinds of collectables and different things. But they are really pricy. So does anyone have a source for me that might be more in the area that I can afford? --- GoldED 2.50 * Origin: The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAB00003Date: 06/06/97 From: JOHN GIANNINI Time: 03:10pm \/To: DAVE HUGHES (Read 0 times) Subj: Kansas! On 05 Jun 97, Dave Hughes wrote to All: DH> I've seen a lot of messages here about the definition of prog. rock DH> bands, and the one real standout American group that comes to my mind DH> would have to be Kansas. There was also Styx that was pretty progressive.... And Rainbow (Richie Blackmore) did some pretty progressive stuff as well... --- GoldED 2.50 * Origin: The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAB00004Date: 06/05/97 From: KENNETH NEWMAN Time: 11:40am \/To: DAVID MARHEINE (Read 0 times) Subj: Family On 06-02-97 DAVID MARHEINE wrote to KENNETH NEWMAN... DM> They were quite psychedelic at times, though. Some similarities DM> to Traffic on Family's earlier albums. Yeah, I can definitely see the similarity to Traffic. DM> _Anyway_ is half live and was released in the US out of sequence. Love that album. Real weird sound quality, tho. DM> _It's Only A Movie_ I never warmed up to, but after selling a copy DM> bought another a few years later when I wasn't so scared of Tony DM> Ashton. Is he Welsh or something? I'm still scared of Ashton so I haven't gotten close enough to check. It's not the kind of thing you would ask someone unless you got to know them well first. I have an album by Ashton, Gardner and Dyke and I still can't bring myself to listen to it, so paralyzed am I. DM> Chapman and Whitney did a "duo" album called _Streetwalkers_, which DM> became the name of the band they put together with wossname from the DM> Jeff Beck Group. Kind of like the way Back Street Crawler became a band, eerie how both bands had the word "Street" and the letters a, w and l. DM> I think of Family->Streetwalkers as similar to DM> Free->Bad Company, core players forming a similar new band, tightened DM> up and a little more commercial, a bit less eccentric... Except that unlike Bad Company, Streetwalkers didn't suck. Free was OK, though. Cheers, Kenneth --- * OFFLINE 1.58 * General Failure reading John Dvorak --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff238/x] * Origin: OnLine Now Thunder Bay ON, Canada (807)-345-1531 (1:229/510) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAB00005Date: 06/05/97 From: KENNETH NEWMAN Time: 12:17pm \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 0 times) Subj: TOMMY BOLIN On 05-20-97 STEVE KEMP wrote to KENNETH NEWMAN... SK> Nope, I was thinking of Marc Bolan of T-Rex. Now I'm doin' hella damage control. Not to good of me to make such a bludder on my very first post to this echo. EEK! I hide in shame, now. OOK! OOK! Oh do stop wittering on. *MY* first message on this echo, I flamed the moderator for declaring XTC off-topic. All those years ago I couldn't even spell "moder8er" and now I even am one. Now all I need is 50 cents and I can get a cup of coffee. Welcome to the echo, btw. Now, on to the ObProg part of the message. So, what are your top ten fave prog bands of all time? (not counting the Johns, Elton and Olivia Newton, or the Billy's, Joel and Paul and Squire). NPot8T: _Stardrive with Robert Mason_ in glorious quadraphonic! Just got a copy of this, brand new, still sealed, traded it for a Jim Croce 8 track! This is ultra space-age prog cheese food (actually the first side ain't bad, but the second side is pure polyester leisure suit prog). Which leads me to another question: What were the all time greatest cheese-prog bands? I tentatively nominate: 1. Fire Ballet - hey, they were from New Jersey, no more need be said 2. Space - french studio fakes, didn't know if they were a prog band or a disco band or a technopop band (hey, all of technopop was cheesy, like M, Yellow Magic Orchestra, even Yello) 3. Greenslade - I don't want to call them cheese-prog but honesty compells me to (see "Little Red Fry Up") 4. Refugee - I think the vocals plant them firmly in this category 5. Bo Hansson - Cheesy but good 6. Randy Pie - they didn't title their album _Kitsch_ for nothing 7. Birth Control - backdoor possibilities indeed! 8. Face Dancer - from Genesis clone to cheese prog drone 9. Michael Quatro - the ultimate in cheesepomp 10. Omega - honourary Eurocheese --- * OFFLINE 1.58 * Grandma got run over by a reindeer... --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff238/x] * Origin: OnLine Now Thunder Bay ON, Canada (807)-345-1531 (1:229/510) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAC00000Date: 05/30/97 From: MICHAEL DOYLE Time: 09:21am \/To: DAVID MARHEINE (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: GENTLE GIANT DM>I received a 2 CD _Giant For A Life_ tribute album yesterday... A Gentle Giant tribute CD!? Where do I get one? DM>Inasmuch as I only own their first 4 albums (_GG_ & _Acquiring The DM>Taste_ on CD, _Three Friends_ & _Octopus_ on LP), plus the DM>_Civilian_ cutout LP, much of the material is far less familiar DM>to me than a Yes or Genesis tribute would be... Civilian, alas, stinks. DM>So, can you review for me which other GG albums to look for (used vinyl DM>most likely, cheap CD's, possibly), and any to look out for? "Free Hand" from '75 is EXCELLENT. The follow up "Interview" very, very good, but short. Their first self titled album "Gentle Giant" is pretty good for as first album and much better than their LAST album. The pre-"Free Hand" albums "The Power And the Gory" and "In a Glass House" are pretty good too. The post-"Interview" albums get very spotty, with some good cuts, some bad cuts, mostly due to an (unsuccessful) attempt to break into the commercial market. The ones I have are "The Missing Piece," "Giant For a Day", which both have some good cuts on them, and their worthless final album which you already have, "Citizen." But by far the best album of GG's to start with has got to be the double live "Playing the Fool." Despite your stated dislike of 70's live albums in-general, this one does not exhibit the flaws you listed; it's simply a fantastic album, covers most of their previous material, and shows this band could actually play all that complex stuff LIVE. * OLX 2.1 TD * Don't hate yourself in the morning - sleep till noon. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Power Windows! is Win95 & MIDI! 205-881-8619 (1:373/27) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAC00001Date: 06/08/97 From: GEORGE ERDNER Time: 12:02am \/To: JOHN GIANNINI (Read 0 times) Subj: American Prog Rock JG> DH> I've seen a lot of messages here about the definition of prog. rock JG> DH> bands, and the one real standout American group that comes to my ind JG> DH> would have to be Kansas. JG> There was also Styx that was pretty progressive.... And Rainbow (Richie JG> Blackmore) did some pretty progressive stuff as well... There is a treasure trove of prog-rock found on recordings made by artists and bands that were not prog-rock specialists. These album cuts did not get much (if any) airplay, and would be unknown if you didn't have the album. One gets the impression that American record companies must have encouraged American acts to use a little diversity in compiling albums, or else that American artists were more likely to experiment with multiple genres, especially on first albums. Billy Joel is not and never was a Prog-Rock specialist, yet at least one of the tunes on his Piano Man album (The Ballad of Billy the Kid) met all the criteria recently posted as to what is Prog Rock. Though it could be argued that the somg merely sounded like Prog-Rock by accident rather than design, it sure does SOUND like prog rock to me. A few of the cuts on Meat Loaf's second album "Dead Ringer" sounded like Prog Rock, especially the classical influences part. None of the songs on the album got much airplay, and it only sold about 12 copies, so I doubt if anyone who hasn't heard the album could even have an opinion about it. Pat Benatar's remake of "Don't Let it Show" from her first album is outstanding. No one questions that that song was Prog Rock when it first appeared on the Alan Parson's Project's "I, Robot". Even though the lead instrumental was switched to guitar instead of organ, it still sounds just as progressive. And Benatar hadn't forsaken her operatic training on her first album, so her vocals sound very "classical" -- almost Wagnerian. Dan Fogelberg's work, for the most part, sounds to me like a cross between 60's folkie and 70's "adult contemporary" lounge lizard, but one of his songs -- "Netherlands" -- has an excellent prog-rock sound, even if it uses a classical orchestra instead of traditional rock instruments. * OLX 2.1 TD * There is never enough beer, sex or disk space! --- Renegade * Origin: LOTL/2 * 412 746 3592 * lotl2.slip.lm.com * USofA (1:129/230) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAD00000Date: 06/01/97 From: STEVEN VAN IMPE Time: 02:13pm \/To: FRANK SWARBRICK (Read 0 times) Subj: Genesis Hello Frank, (Phew, at last I'm receiving mail again in 60S_70S. It's been months since the last message, and now a whole bunch popped in, about 250 messages. I have a lot of catching-up ahead :) MR>> I am trying to think of the song that was written to a guy who killed MR>> one of the band members' friends. The guy was in the audience when MR>> this song was sung for the first time at a concert ...which song and MR>> who wrote it? Do you know anything else about this incident? FS> The song you're think of is "In The Air Tonight". It was a Phil FS> Collins solo song from his first album _Face Value_. FS> In any case, I believe that story is apocryphal. In other words, not FS> true. But it does make a good story... I've also heard this story about a song by Sick of it All (or was it Madball?). No, I don't listen to their music (stop throwing things at me), it was a friend who told me. Best proof that it's not true is if you hear it a lot. -/_-, | Fidonet: 2:292/867.5 | Steven | svim@urania.knooppunt.be | --- FMail/386 1.02 * Origin: Into the distance, a ribbon of Black (2:292/867.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAD00001Date: 06/01/97 From: STEVEN VAN IMPE Time: 02:27pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: ProgSynth Hello All, After months of silence, I received a bunch of messages in this echo. To catch up, hereby a text I wrote about a less known form of ProgRock: ProgSynth. The part on Jean Michel Jarre is a bit larger, because I'm a huge fan of Jean-Mi. This text was written some days ago, and just yesterday I went to his concert in Brussels. I'm too overwhelmed to describe the sensation. If I altered the text now, it would become too large and too complicated to post. Comments are very welcome. History of Electric Music / Synthesizer =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In the late sixties, Rock groups started using synthesizers as a basic instrument. The Beatles occasionally used a piano, but no electric keyboard, whereas rock groups like Deep Purple and Pink Floyd had full time keyboard players. Most of the time this was strictly a rock organ or mellotron, like Deep Purple. Pink Floyd experimented with real synthesizers: Rick Wright learned to program the sounds to adapt them to their needs and set the right environment and background for the music. A fine example of this is _Shine On You Crazy Diamond_. The Alan Parsons Project also used a lot of synths, among with other electronical devices to improve sounds, but more as a stand-alone instrument next to the guitars, the bass, the drums and the vocals. In the early seventies, a new music group developed from the early new age music. Most of these groups are one-man groups. Mike Oldfield for example plays every instrument himself on his _Tubular Bells_ (1973): some different keyboards, electric guitars with various additional effects, and classical instruments (grand piano, violin, spanish guitar, ...). Oldfield is not a real synth artist: he plays mostly instrumental music with keyboard as main instrument. It can be compared to early Pink Floyd suites such as _Saucerful of Secrets_ (1968), _Atom Heart Mother Suite_ (1970) or _Echoes_ (1971). The problem with Oldfield is that, while he has excellent ideas, he doesn't know anything about music. He places a 1/4 rhythm over a 1/3 background, he goes from major to minor and back, he suddenly breaks the music, ... They're great songs, but the mistake Oldfield made was to put them all in one song. Later, Oldfields style settled, he used less keyboards and more other instruments, like in Crises (1983), which is very ProgRock, but not real synth. Nowadays, Oldfields music tends to be New-Age: synths with wide soundscapes, and very few other instruments. A good example of this is _Songs of Distant Earth_ (1996), the soundtrack to Arthur C. Clarke's Science Fiction novel. In about the same period, Vangelis started experimenting with keyboards. He didn't use any common instrument, but instead replaced their sounds with those of a keyboard. His songs could be easily played by a regular rock band. _Pulstar_ and _Spiral_ are fine examples of this music. His later music was more background music (like _Bladerunner_, _Chariots Of Fire_ and _Conquest of Paadise_), or even New Age (like _Direct_ or _Voices_). His first music was great, but now he has become repetitive: there's nothing new in his music, every album sounds the same. He produces about five albums every year. The, in 1975, Jean Michel Jarre published his first album: _Oxygene_. Jarre doesn't use keyboards, he *forms* them: he does things that weren't originally planned by the producers of the keyboards. He creates Soundscapes, Rhythms, Stories. Here we have a completely new form of music. _Oxygene_ was a huge success, it was a world wide best seller, the live performance still has the record for most attended one-night outdoor live concert. Jarre's concerts use the city as stage: one of his tours was called _Europe in Concert_. For the _Concert for Tolerance_, he used the entire Paris La Defense as a giant screen for his light show. _Oxygene_ was followed by _Equinoxe_ and _Magnetic Fields_, both albums in the same style, but with very different themes. Using other keyboards, Jarre puts something new in every album. After _Magnetic Fields_, Jarre started using digital keyboards. He could produce even more different sounds, but lost the soft sound of analog keyboards. Jarre also experiments: _Waiting for Cousteau_ for example is a song that lasts for about 42 minutes. It is produced by a computer program for fractals. Another album,_Music for Supermarkets_, was pressed only once and sold to the highest bidder. Jarre wanted to show that while a Picasso or Van Gogh is painted once and sold, a piece of music is pressed and sold thousands of time. If you find it in your music store, it is a bootleg of the only radio broadcast ever. Jarre became more and more rock as time went by. _Rendez-Vous_ is very modern, and _Revolutions_ (1994) goes even further, where Jarre uses guitars with maximum distortion. By then, Jarre was known as the King of Techno, even though his pieces were only played in disco's when remixed. _Revolution, Revolutions_ is pure techno. But even then, it's still Progrock. On his latest album, _Oxygene 7-13_ (1997), Jarre goes back to his first period: he only uses analog synths, and even uses the _Oxygene_ theme. The show, however, will be completely different: for the first time, Jarre plays the entire tour indoors in relatively small concert halls. I have no idea about what I should expect when I see it on May 30th. In the 80's such groups as Tangerine Dream, OMD and Kraftwerk flourished. TD is reported to be a bit like post-Waters Pink Floyd, while Kraftwerk is nowadays pure German techno. They were quite Prog in the early 80's though, with such albums as _Trans Europe Express_ and _Autobahn_. Orchestral Manouvres in the Dark is accepted as ProgRock. In most of their songs, they make intensive use of keyboards. Some of their Hits often appear on those dreadful 'Synthesizer Greatest Hits' collections. In the 90's, most synth has become new age, like Vangelis: Kitaro (_Dream_) and others combine world music with synths and cannot really be called synth anymore. There's also Enigma, which is like a modern Mike Oldfield: Michael Cretu is the only performer (except for some exotic instruments and backing vocals) and he combines new age world music with rock guitar pieces and vocals. His _Le Roi est Mort. Vive le Roi_ (1996) is a concept album in the most strict meaning of the word: it not only has the music, which is very global and complete, but the CD booklet has a very complicated structure, it is transparant, and it has a very strong and exotic smell. -/_-, | Fidonet: 2:292/867.5 | Steven | svim@urania.knooppunt.be | --- FMail/386 1.02 * Origin: Into the distance, a ribbon of Black (2:292/867.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: EAD00002Date: 06/01/97 From: STEVEN VAN IMPE Time: 02:36pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: New Stuff Hello All, Some 'New Stuff' to generate even more discussions: Yes: _Yesstory_: apart from the _Close to the Edge_ album, Yes was totally unknown territory for me. So I got me a compilation album (totally against my principles; but it was the only album available). Favourites: _I've Seen All Good People_, _Soon_, _Don't Kill The Whale_, _Changes (live)_. The others are also good, but I haven't been able to understand the structure yet. _Ritual: Nous Sommes Du Soleil_ is very complicated. OMD: _Best Of_: A new favourite band, I think. _Joan of Arc_ and _Maid of Orleans_ are fantastic, _Dreams_ is very good, _Genetic Engineer_ is nice, ... not a single bad song. OMD: _Architecture & Morality_: Not their best album, it seems (except for _JoA_ and _MoO_, like above). The _Crush_ album is better, but I don't regret getting _A&M_. For more on Orchestral Manoeuvers in the Dark, read my message on ProgSynth. -/_-, | Fidonet: 2:292/867.5 | Steven | svim@urania.knooppunt.be | --- FMail/386 1.02 * Origin: Into the distance, a ribbon of Black (2:292/867.5)