--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: E4I00003Date: 03/26/97 From: STEVEN VAN IMPE Time: 08:41pm \/To: MIKE MCCARTNEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Piano Man Hello Mike. 07 Mar 97 17:29, Mike McCartney wrote to MICHAEL.DOYLE@f27.n373.z1.gryn.org: M>> Well, I'd say Floyd got less and less progressive as time went on, MM> Hmm, well I might agree with this statement and I might not. The MM> 1968-1971 Pink Floyd were most certainly Progressive. I would rather say psychedelic. I don't think it was real Prog, it doesn't have the right... intention? meaning? subject? MM> Once they hit mainstream they seemed to only have progressive MM> undertones..... Not to say that they weren't GREAT..... They still are great, of course. And I still call them Prog. Songs like Sorrow, and especially High Hopes are definately prog. Not to mention the (slight) conceptiveness of A Momentary Lapse of Reason. MM> .\\ike .\\cCartney MM> Moderator Pink Floyd Discussions Fidonet I did see this one coming :-) -/_-, Steven (Active member of the Pink Floyd Discussions Fidonet ;-) --- FMail/386 1.02 * Origin: Into the distance, a ribbon of Black (2:292/867.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: E4I00004Date: 04/01/97 From: STEVEN VAN IMPE Time: 08:59pm \/To: GEORGE ERDNER (Read 0 times) Subj: "BEST" ALBUMS Hello George. 26 Mar 97 00:02, George Erdner wrote to Steven Van Impe: SVI>> No no no no no. You can't just say Genesis is Progrock. Genesis SVI>> with Peter Gabriel is ProgRock. Phil Collins might at first have SVI>> been Prog, but for moment he definately ISN'T. GE> I had mistakenly assumed that the intended humor in my post was GE> sufficiently obvious that I didn't need a stupid ":)" thingee at the GE> end of it. I never thought anyone would take my little bit of GE> absurdity as anything but humorous absurdity. This stupid ":)" thingee is very useful for people who, like me, don't speak English at home and therefor do not understand many of the hidden humor inside such messages. May I point out that you didn't understand a simple statement as 'No a, no b'? As to this one, I was quite sure you were joking. You mentioned the Supremes. But I was trying to get this discussion back in line. Most of the messages these days contain nothing but rubbish - flames are normal, and I can delete them with a single key; but I can't stand on-going discussions about whether or not you were flamed. And your messages mostly do not contain anything that contributes to a normal discussion. My attempt was to use this message to improve my previous definition of ProgRock: after a split, every part of the band has to be reconsidered to see if they're still ProgRock (you might remember my definition was not based on single songs or albums, but on group concepts). GE> But then, I guess that some people really thought that "Don't eat GE> yellow snow" was serious advice from Frank Zappa. Should one be really careful with an axe? Let's ask Eugene, shall we? Do I have to explain this? Or do you understand it by yourself? -/_-, Steven --- FMail/386 1.02 * Origin: Into the distance, a ribbon of Black (2:292/867.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: E4I00005Date: 04/13/97 From: JOHN WITTERSHEIM Time: 08:08pm \/To: GEORGE ERDNER (Read 0 times) Subj: New Temporary Moderator -> CR> > Again, I have to submit that the Beach Boys songs "Good Vibrati -> CR> > and "Heroes and Villians" fit the definition of Prog-Rock, thou -> -> CR> Huh? How is Good Vibrations prog rock? Good song, but I would n -> think -> CR> as that... -> -> I think it SOUNDS like a Prog Rock song. Between the tempo shifts, -> use of unusual instruments, and the intricate pseudo-classical vocal -> harmonies, I believe it fits at least one of the definitions of Prog -> Rock I've read here. -> -> -> * OLX 2.1 TD * You can share a beer with your friends. -> --- Retorn -> * Origin: LOTL/2 * 412 746 3592 * lotl2.slip.lm.com * USofA -> (1:129/230)I going to be moderator here because I'm the only one on here how know's what the hell Progressive Rock really is and what the heck it really means! Progressive Rock is not just rock its Art Rock like Early Genesis,Classical Rock Like Renaissance, Progressive Rock is just ROCK that evolved in the 70's from simple music form valuing emotions and attitude,to an elaborate form able to incorporate involved compositional structures and sophisticated melodic,rhythmic,and harminic elements.Progressive Rock has two prerequisites:Intelligence and musical sophistication deticated by bands who still champion the old-fashioned ideals of beauty,lyricism,and grandeur in art.In the craft of Progressive Rock it does not simply mean new or different. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Fresh Start BBS * Edison NJ * (908) 248-1678 * (1:107/310.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: E4I00006Date: 04/13/97 From: JOHN WITTERSHEIM Time: 08:11pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: What Progressive Rock IS! Over twenty years ago, pioneering bands in Britain and, eventually, every developed country in the world, evolved rock from a simple music form valuing base emotions and attitude, to an elaborate form able to incorporate involved compositional structures and sophisticated melodic, rhythmic, and harmonic elements. Classical, Jazz, folk, and electronic music elements were integrated; musicianship and instrumental ability were emphasized. This genre came to be known as "progressive rock or art-rock". By the end of the 1970's, these bands had written themselves out of the market by making music over the head of the average pop listener (not to mention the rock media). Progressive rock has to two prerequistes: intelligence and musical sophistication - commodities not highly valued in the rock industry. This is not music for clueless kids desperate to be in on the latest popular band. Progressive music is dedicated to those who still champion the old-fashioned ideals of beauty, lyricism, and grandeur in art. Progressive artists know how to marry the cerebral and the visceral, infusing the energy that defines rock with music that does not insult the intellect. Progressive artists know that emotion is still the raison d'etre of music. However, these are not the emotions of frustrated teenagers or disturbed art-school students. These are the much more diverse and subtle emotions that can only be evoked by those versed in the craft of music. Progressive does not mean simply new or different. The word is meaningless without stating the goal one is progressing toward. I hope that goal is now clear. After years of enduring a music industry pretending that rock never grew up, I believe there are many more ready to take the leap from rock-as-fashion to rock-as-high art. It's only PROGRESSIVE ROCK N' ROLL, and we LOVE it! --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Fresh Start BBS * Edison NJ * (908) 248-1678 * (1:107/310.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: E4I00007Date: 04/13/97 From: KENNETH NEWMAN Time: 08:08am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: message from Clark Ray Howdy y'all, Clark Ray can read messages here but his feed won't let him pot, so he's routing this through me via Internet. Anybody else in that situation can route posts through me at kenneth.newman@oln.com ------------------------------- Let everyone know on the echo that Stuart and I will be at Progfest '97 in May. We'd like to meet anyone from the echo there. We'll try to pick a location for all of us to meet at (probably the lobby of the Figueroa Hotel across the street from the Theater) and then we can go to the concert together. Isn't Pedro Sena going? How about you, Kenneth? Have anyone who is going send me an e-mail and we'll arrange the meeting. -------------------------------------------------------------- - Clark Ray - - email: clarkray@psnw.com - - Web Page: http://www.psnw.com/~clarkray/list.html - -------------------------------------------------------------- C > NP: "All sorts of unmentionable things" -- Caravan C > (I got this _Cunning Stunts_ album a few weeks back -- good stuff) KN> I find that a really pleasant album. Not great, but very > pleasant. Sometimes you need a pleasant album more than a > great one, so it's worth having. _Blind Dog at St. > Dunstan's_ is very much in that category. C > I haven't gotten into _Blind Dog_ yet, but I haven't really C > given it a chance yet. --- * OFFLINE 1.58 * I like children, if they are properly cooked! --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff238/x] * Origin: OnLine Now Thunder Bay ON, Canada (807)-345-1531 (1:229/510) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: E4K00000Date: 04/15/97 From: GEORGE ERDNER Time: 12:02am \/To: MICHAEL DOYLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Phantom Prog MD> GE>There's so little Prog-Rock out there in the first place, why does MD> GE>everyone reject discussion of Prog-Rock songs by artists who don't imi MD> GE>themselves to that genre exclusively, yet embrace discussion of rtists MD> GE>who only do Prog-Rock but that no one has ever heard of (much less MD> GE>heard)? MD> Egad, I ask you one more time: Who does this? I know of no one that MD> does this. Do you think it's done in this echo? I don't see any MD> indication of such. Who are you arguing with? DJ's? Read the responses to any of my posts where I made mention of music that (I believe) conforms to the parameters published in this echo regarding what is and is not Prog-Rock. I confess that I don't keep records of who says what. I barely glance at the "from" label on the posts in any echo mail network conference. But I have yet to attempt to discuss a work of music that (again, I believe) fits the definition of Prog-Rock that doesn't generate replies that boil down to: "so-and-so (the artist) isn't a Prog-Rock artist, therefore the song isn't Prog-Rock". I can only think of one post I made, regarding one of the songs from Jesus Christ, Superstar that fit the Prog-Rock genre's definition, that got a response other than what I mentioned above. So far, there are two definitions of Prog-Rock that I've read in here that I can recall. The first said it was music created by Yes, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, etc. It seems that who belongs in "etc" is a rather arbitrary call. The other described the sound of the music, and singled out the use of time signatures other than 4/4, unique chord patterns, and classical and/or jazz influences. Yet when I mention a song with a time signature other than 4/4, and/or unique chord patterns, and/or clasical & jazz influences that seems to me to fit the category of "etc", I'm told "that's not by a Prog-Rock artist", or "sorry, but that's not Prog-Rock, either". Then I'm referred to obscure recordings only available through obscure mail-order companies or from tiny and obscure specialty record stores where you have to have an appointment to get in. So help me out here. Just what is it that makes a song a Prog-Rock song? Is it the credentials of the artist? If a Prog-Rock artist records anything, regardless of what it sounds like, is that Prog-Rock? Or is it the sound of the composition? If it fits the parameters of what the sound is supposed to be, then is it Prog-Rock, even if all the other works in the artist's catalog aren't Prog-Rock? And if it is the sound of the work, then just what are the parameters that define the sound? If classical influences are what makes a song Prog-Rock, does that include ALL types of classical music? Do vocals that have a Wagnerian grand opera tonal quality and harmonies qualify as a "classical influence"? * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm going to live forever, or die trying. --- Renegade * Origin: LOTL/2 * 412 746 3592 * lotl2.slip.lm.com * USofA (1:129/230) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 182 60'S 70'S ROCK Ref: E4K00001Date: 04/15/97 From: GEORGE ERDNER Time: 12:02am \/To: MICHAEL DOYLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Prog. Rock defns. MD> GE>SRG> MD> Can we go back to discussing music yet? MD> GE>SRG> MD> MD> GE>SRG> GE> OK. MD> GE>SRG> you say "OK" and then totally fail to "discuss" ????? MD> GE>You didn't ask any questions about music. You asked about musicians. MD> GE>That's related to music, but it's still something different. MD> Ak! I'm gagging! I can't take it anymore! What the HELL is wrong with MD> discussing prog-rock MUSICIANS and the music they make? What is wrong MD> with this guy? I didn't say there was anything wrong with discussing musicians instead of music. I said that if you ask me to discuss music, then I'll discuss music. Just don't ask me to discuss music then start discussing musicians. MD> OLX 2.1 TD Built for comfort - I ain't built for speed. Ah, a modified version of a lyric from Jim Steinman's title song from the album "Bad for Good" -- "I wasn't built for comfort, I was built for speed". The album is also home to some songs that sound like they are Prog-Rock, along with some that definitely don't. * OLX 2.1 TD * If you change beers, you don't have to pay alimony. --- Renegade * Origin: LOTL/2 * 412 746 3592 * lotl2.slip.lm.com * USofA (1:129/230)