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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00003 Date: 04/06/98
From: MIKE ROSS                                             Time: 01:23am
\/To: A.G.G.                                              (Read 1 times)
Subj: Are atoms expanding?

Well, I've just come across some interesting news relating to what AGG
said was my "ad hoc" explanation on whether atoms are expanding:
> New scientist 28 March 1998 reports that a group of scientists have
> reported possible time-dependence of the fine structure constant
> after studying the spectra of quasars.
The fine structure constant is a dimensionless ratio relating the
electron's orbital velocity to the speed of light. If this value was
significantly different, a lot of our biochemistry would be different.
This value is roughly about 1/137. This ratio however varies with
changes in momentum and of course with changes in the speed of light.
Of interest with the latter is that the speed of light can change in the
presence of strong electromagnetic or gravitational fields as stated by
QED. This effect was in fact observed in the 1930's. The effect is
negligible on the Earth or even near the Sun but it is appreciable near
neutron stars and BH's which have enormously intense fields.
Now the above report states that this constant is tied to the arrow of
time. Since we know that time flows at different rates this means that
the fine structure constant was different in the past or in other words
in very distant objects and atoms may in fact be a different size there.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
 * Origin: Juxtaposition BBS.  Lasalle, Quebec, Canada (1:167/133)
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00004 Date: 04/03/98
From: JIM VAN NULAND                                        Time: 04:36pm
\/To: TIM EDWARDS                                         (Read 1 times)
Subj: Star Constellations

>I found a fine ShareWare program some years back, and saw to it that it
>was posted to the local Astro-club BBS, as well as bringing disks (copy
>charge priced) to public events... Deep Space 3D.  It's now sold as a CD.
  This one has a happy ending:  the person publishing the CD is the
original author -- he did NOT sell it to anyone.  And the shareware
version is still available on a number of shareware sites.
 * SLMR 2.1a * Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally....
--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: [PC-TIE BBS] (1:143/11)
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00005 Date: 04/05/98
From: BARTON PAUL LEVENSON                                  Time: 06:15am
\/To: LANCE REYNOLDS                                      (Read 1 times)
Subj: ASTEROID PASSING CLOS

 BPL> No, this is just quantitatively wrong.  The impulse would be
 BPL> enough to radically change the orbit, the earlier the wider.
 BPL> Do the math.
 LR> Ok, I'll bite.  What is quantitativly wrong?  My point was about being
 LR> able to make the roid into pieces small enough to not hurt when they
 LR> hit.  I didn't think of just knocking it off its path.
 LR> And as a point of order, some of us (still mostly useful human beings)
 LR> weren't lucky or talented enough to acquire the math that you so
 LR> blithely rubbed in my face. 
If you don't understand the math, you don't understand the problem, and 
therefore have no right to an opinion on the subject.
 LR> Perhaps, if you could come down off your pedestal long enough, you
 LR> could explain the math, or some rudimentary portion thereof, to one
 LR> less fortunate than your lofty (somewhat snooty) self.
Sure.  Kinetic energy E(k) = 1/2 m v^2 in a Newtonian framework, where m is 
mass in kilograms, v velocity in meters per second and energy comes out in 
Joules.  Nuclear explosive power is gauged relative to the explosive power of 
the chemical explosive, 2,4,6-trinitrotoluene (TNT).  A gram of TNT yields 
4,200 Joules of explosive energy.  Say you want to increase, or decrease, the 
velocity of an asteroid by a given amount, enough to miss the Earth.
Let's say the asteroid is traveling at 30,000 meters per second, a 
representative speed for Earth-crossers.  If detected on a collision course 
from say, 10,000,000,000 meters away, and given that Earth's diameter is 
6,378,040 meters (I'm using the equatorial figure), a velocity difference of 
about 0.06% would be of the right order of magnitude to avoid hitting the 
Earth.  More precise calculations would involve the asteroid's actual path 
and the angle at which its orbit will cross ours, but we can leave that aside 
for the moment.
Say the asteroid is 1,000 meters in diameter and roughly spherical, with a 
density equivalent to that of surface rocks on the Earth (about 2,800 
kilograms per cubic meter).  The volume of a sphere is (4/3) pi r^3, or here 
about 5.236 x 10^8 m^3, giving it a mass of around 1.4661 trillion kilograms. 
 With the velocity cited earlier, the kinetic energy is 6.5974 x 10^20 
Joules.  A difference of 3.9584 x 10^17 Joules must be made in its kinetic 
energy.  By the conversion factor cited, this is about 94 megatons of 
explosive energy.
Assuming no conversion of the bombs into shaped charges, the efficiency of 
transfer would probably be low, perhaps 10%.  Therefore 940 1-megaton bombs 
would be needed.  Since we and the Russians between us have about 50,000 
warheads available, many in that yield range, deflecting the asteroid is well 
within our capabilities.
--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00006 Date: 04/05/98
From: BARTON PAUL LEVENSON                                  Time: 06:26am
\/To: BOB KING                                            (Read 1 times)
Subj: S of L.

 BK> Hi,
 > Huh? Mass is a property of some elementary particles.
 > There's no arguing
 > that mass doesn't exist.
 BK> So how do the experts reason that you can have a massless particle?
 BK> sig rex
Some particles, not all particles.  Quarks have mass, leptons have mass, but 
photons and gravitons, and perhaps the neutrino, don't.
--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00007 Date: 04/05/98
From: BARTON PAUL LEVENSON                                  Time: 06:29am
\/To: EARL TRUSS                                          (Read 1 times)
Subj: our moon

 ET> Below is what Encarta has to say about Pluto.  From this, it does not
 ET> sound like Pluto's "moon" is oddly-shaped since they refer to its
 ET> "diameter".  Were you thinking of the moons of Mars?  They are 
efinitely
 ET> odd-shaped and less than 100 km at their widest points.
The diameter is twice the radius of a sphere.  Charon is 635 km. in radius 
and 1270 km. in diameter, and very close to a sphere.
--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00008 Date: 04/05/98
From: BARTON PAUL LEVENSON                                  Time: 06:33am
\/To: MARTYN HARRISON                                     (Read 1 times)
Subj: BB & apology

First, the apology -- I'm sorry for jumping all over you the way I've been 
doing.  I've just come off a year of debating Big Bang v. Steady State on the 
AOL astronomy boards, and I'm still in nuke-the-opposition/take-no-prisoners 
mode.  I'll try to calm down.
 MH> rate was increasing, we could reverse the expansion process back to the
 MH> point where the expansion rate was zero. This *is* *not* what would be
 MH> the case in a big bang origin, although this seems to have avoided
 MH> scrutiny. The big bang was, of course, the explanation for why the
 MH> universe is expanding. Now if we know it can expand on it's own, we
 MH> don't need it (but it's become entrenched).
 MH> Ho hum, it'll probably be retracted soon.
I think you're assuming above that the expansion rate has to be zero at the 
moment of the Big Bang.  I don't think that's needed.  If you extrapolate 
back the current expansion rate, depending on what model you're using, 
everything fits together 10-20 billion years ago, which is evidence for the 
Big Bang.
--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00009 Date: 04/05/98
From: BARTON PAUL LEVENSON                                  Time: 06:36am
\/To: MARTYN HARRISON                                     (Read 1 times)
Subj: A 5th force?

 MH> Einstein was wrong, and his presumption that the universe was steady
 MH> state is still wrong. His fudge factor is wrong.
 MH> Whoever invented this notion that the fudge factor is equivalent to the
 MH> fifth force is also wrong, they're two entirely different fudge factors,
 MH> one is designed to "correct" maths which point towards an expanding
 MH> universe, the other is in response to the finding that the expansion
 MH> rate is being added to, not merely draining away due to gravity.
But they're not.  A positive cosmological constant = a force expanding the 
Universe.  If lambda is positive, there's a fifth force.  (If it's negative 
there's also a fifth force, but attractive instead of repulsive).
--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00010 Date: 04/05/98
From: JOHN PAZMINO                                          Time: 09:02pm
\/To: TIM EDWARDS                                         (Read 1 times)
Subj: Star Constellations

TE> JK> TE> Read the documentation.  Shareware is a distribution method for
TE> JK> TE> comercial software.  Use of shareware beyond the trial period
TE> 
TE> JK>Actually, he is right.  Shareware is *not* commercial software, it is 
privat
TE> 
TE> ??? Compare the last distribution of Procomm before they converted from
TE> ShareWare to ShrinkWrap, and you will see that successful ShareWare is of
TE> far higher quality than most products sold on Hype, such as Windows.
This is the exception. Virtually all shareware ends up ultimately as, 
well, shareware. Oh!, what about sellware that turns into freeware? 
Look at STK. Price went from, um, $8,000 -- NO!, I don't make up this 
stuff! -- to zero. SO I called the publisher and, yes, it shot off the 
CD to me. Just like that. If I called but two weeks earlier, I'd be 
living today in a refirgerator crate. And!, this past Christmas I get 
a lovely, like LOVELY, desk calendar from the STK people with gorgeous 
printouts from STK as the pictures for the monthly sheets. All for 
being a valued 'customer'.
 
TE> JK>And for the record, any shareware which we have used and found 
acceptable--a
TE> JK>use regularly--has had the shareware fees paid at The Northland 
Connection.
TE> JK>Now, can we get back to talking about astronomy again, please?
TE> 
TE> I found a fine ShareWare program some years back, and saw to it that it
TE> was posted to the local Astro-club BBS, as well as bringing disks (copy
TE> charge priced) to public events... Deep Space 3D.  It's now sold as a CD.
It's still freely distribuible. Look in almost any astro software 
library. In fact, the CD of Deep Space 3D (which I did eventually 
purchase) has the free passalong edition on it. 
---
  RoseReader 2.52 P005004
 * Origin: MoonDog BBS  Brooklyn,NY 718 692-2498 (1:278/15)
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00011 Date: 04/05/98
From: JOHN PAZMINO                                          Time: 09:08pm
\/To: MARK KAYE                                           (Read 1 times)
Subj: Tasco Buys Celestron

MK>    Tasco is going to buy Celstron International.  This is good news for 
all
MK> amateur astronomers as now all C8s through C14s will come shipped with 
three
MK> quality Huygens oculars and a 3X barlow!
Old news. Tasco makes the Celestron 'First Scope'. Actually the theory 
is that Tasco is a front for a cabal made of Celestron and Meade. They 
let Tasco sell the trasco scopes, get the revenue from the sales. And 
sit back and watch the hordes come crawling to them directly for real 
and proper telescopes. And they collect revenue from these new sales, 
too.
---
  RoseReader 2.52 P005004
 * Origin: MoonDog BBS  Brooklyn,NY 718 692-2498 (1:278/15)
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 180 ASTRONOMY     Ref: F4B00012 Date: 04/05/98
From: JOHN PAZMINO                                          Time: 09:12pm
\/To: JIM VAN NULAND                                      (Read 1 times)
Subj: Where?

JV> > > easy info about astronomy on internet? And, what books will be good
JV> > > to start with? I'm not intersted in getting something like a
JV> > > telescope if I don't know in what use it.
JV> 
JV>   You need to get in touch with your local astronomy club.  They may be
JV> running a beginner's class!  Hit your library and look for the back-file
JV> of Sky & Telescope magazine, or of Astronomy.  They used to have have
JV> lists of clubs:  the May issue of Astronomy, and the September issue of
JV> S&T.  Call the nearest if none of them are handy by, as there are other
JV> clubs not listed, but are usually known by their neighbors.
A bit out of date. The two zines dropped their club rosters two years 
ago! But you do note the ebsites, which do continue the roster.
---
  RoseReader 2.52 P005004
 * Origin: MoonDog BBS  Brooklyn,NY 718 692-2498 (1:278/15)