--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: EC^00001 Date: 08/30/97 From: LAWRENCE GARVIN Time: 04:10pm \/To: TIM PROVENCIO (Read 2 times) Subj: What echo? Tim Provencio said in a message to Dana Booth: TP> As for freely distributable UNIX Like Operating Systems I prefer TP> FreeBSD. So does Yahoo, Walnut Creek CD-Rom (ftp.cdrom.com), TP> other major presences and most of my other UNIXly employed friends TP> that work on commercial distribs (DG-UX, HP-UX, BSDI, etc) and TP> want a free O/S to play with without liscensing woes, etc. I TP> think a requirement before people sing the praises of Linux should TP> be to use FreeBSD (that of course is an attempt at sheepish TP> humor). FreeBSD's biggest detraction right now, Tim, is the fact that nobody is writing a "How to" book with a FreeBSD CDROM included. It's no small challenge to 'download' the entire distribution of FreeBSD or Linux. I suspect when some enterprising author creates a FreeBSD Installation and Configuration -- or FreeBSD Unleashed -- you'll see the implementations of FreeBSD increase relative to Linux. In fact, I would prefer using FreeBSD to Linux, because I know that BSD, in general, has a much richer history than Linux -- but I've got better things to do with my time -- especially since it only took me five minutes to order the Linux book via the bookclub, and it arrived in my office three weeks later. Two CDROMS, Slackware 3.2, complete sources, and bunches of other stuff I've not even had the time to consider looking at yet. --- * Origin: lawrence@eforest.houston.tx.us (1:106/6018) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: EC^00002 Date: 08/30/97 From: LAWRENCE GARVIN Time: 04:15pm \/To: DENNIS MCCUNNEY (Read 2 times) Subj: UNIX Machines Dennis Mccunney said in a message to Guy Lefrancois: DM> They didn't happen often to me either, before SCO. This problem is DM> a known bug, documented by SCO, and appeared in both Open Server DM> 3.0 release 3.2 and 4.2, though with different diagnostic DM> messages. Dennis, could you please point me in the direction of the -documentation- for this 'bug'? I'd like to read the details. --- * Origin: lawrence@eforest.houston.tx.us (1:106/6018) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: EC^00003 Date: 08/30/97 From: JONATHAN MICHAELS Time: 10:49am \/To: LAWRENCE GARVIN (Read 2 times) Subj: UNIX Machines Hello Lawrence! Wednesday August 27 1997 20:28, Lawrence Garvin wrote to Erik Warmelink: LG> They own the source code. They have a MAJOR market share of all LG> installed Unices. The 'brand' that X/Open purports to license is LG> irrelevant. LG> SCO dropped the use of the word "Unix" in their products three LG> years ago. LG> Or did it never occur to you why the product is now called LG> OpenDesktop or OpenServer. Note the complete absence of the word LG> Unix. the then unix was sold off by novell to a consortium made up of sco and hewlett-packard (hp) .. form memory, it was a 50/50 split as to the rigts of ownership and payment. as regards the droping of the word Unix from the operating system name. i may beging sounding like i'm about to advocate a conspiracy theory, but, i will let the facts speak for themselves. do some investigation in the company archives concerning the owners of sco, you may be surprised to discover that microsoft is a significant steak, oops stake holder in sco. this relationship goes back to the days whne the origianl sco developed and marketed xenix. ms at that staged wanted needed to produce a genuinely multiuser/multitasking operating system and in true ms style they purchased the right to screw yet another ood product just so that hier own efforts wouldn't come off esecond best. i remember when i heard the news about sco purchaseing the usl stake hold, i said to a fellow consultant that this was a blackday for unix and more particularly for computing in general. LG> The trademark of "Unix" apparently is of no value to SCO. people should be asking why. LG> It certainly hasn't hurt their sales any if the adgenda that i see is just a bad dream than its not a problem, but, if on the other hand we are on the verge of a ms windows nt'd enserver/desktop. sorry for the conspiracy type stuff, i grew up on the traditions of unix and learnt my original computing in a sandpit populated with motorola eval boards and microware cross compilers back when drs kernighan and richie were just mere mortals like the rest of us schmucks trying to earn a living. i apologise for the intrusion, but this issue is close to my heart and i felt strongly enought to spend a couple of cnts for the resources to send this article and the coupl of hours my less than co-operative central nervoius system dictated it would take me to prepare this piece. regards Jonathan, a doinsaur, fossil. ... i do what i can, with what i have, are you able to say the same ? --- GoldED/386 2.51.A1026+ * Origin: Fire&Ice CBCS +61 2 96659249 -Sydney NSW- News & EMail U (3:712/808) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: EC^00004 Date: 08/30/97 From: DANA BOOTH Time: 10:49am \/To: TIM PROVENCIO (Read 2 times) Subj: What echo? Tim Provencio wrote in a message to Dana Booth: TP> I have TP> never even thought of reasons to play with Linux anymore beyond TP> determining possible exploits for a couple ISP friends concerned TP> about the mess they created and/or inherited. Well, all that's very lovely, and I'm sure glad that you're happy with BSD. There're others who prefer SUN, some prefer SCO, and yes, some people actually prefer Linux. Some people even prefer Windows 95 or OS/2! Take care, Dana --- FMail/386 1.22+ * Origin: The Peoples' Liberation Front - Tacoma, USA (1:138/179) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: EC^00005 Date: 08/30/97 From: DANA BOOTH Time: 10:59am \/To: LAWRENCE GARVIN (Read 2 times) Subj: What echo? Lawrence Garvin wrote in a message to Dana Booth: DB> We run SCO at my plant for the sole purpose of running our DB> accounting software, and it was a struggle for me when things DB> didn't go right, with little documentation available. LG> SCO is one of the best documented Unices available -- LG> presuming, of course, you bought the documentation -- or know how LG> to use the online hypertext documentation system. SCO was installed by an ISV that installed the accounting software. They didn't leave documentaion, and they had a support contract. All UNIX (and accounting software) problems were handled by the ISV via dial-up connection to the UNIX box. This was before my time... DB> Installing Linux on one of my home computers about a year ago has DB> proven to be invaluable to me in learning the UNIX way of life. LG> Sadly, no. What you've only succeeded in doing is learning the LG> LINUX way of life. Every other flavor is just as different as Linux LG> as night is different from day. The flavors of UNIX differentiate vastly, but they are common in many ways, too. As I said above, an ISV had a support contract, and dealt with our UNIX problems. I started to learn a few things about UNIX by having a shell at a local ISP. A shareware author that I know in Holland (one that you know of too *G*) talked me into trying out Linux at home. Within just a couple of months, I went from intimidated by SCO to being quite comfortable with it. File structure, different shells and shell programming, using devices, using the available interpreters and compilers, and yes, even down to the man pages and how-to's that I never knew were there before. So, am I a SCO guru? No way, but... I'm no longer dangerous. Take care, Dana --- FMail/386 1.22+ * Origin: The Peoples' Liberation Front - Tacoma, USA (1:138/179) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: EC^00006 Date: 08/30/97 From: TARJEI VAAGSTOEL Time: 11:42pm \/To: LAWRENCE GARVIN (Read 2 times) Subj: UNIX Machines 30 Aug 97 09:32, Lawrence Garvin wrote to Tarjei Vaagstoel: >>> any commercial Unix product currently on the market that -does- >>> have a license to use the tradename "Unix". >> What about DEC's "Digital Unix" (running on their Alpha machines)? > Is "Digital Unix" the actual trade name, or is that merely a > descriptive phrase? I was under the impression that the product was > marketed under the trade name "Ultrix" I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Ultrix was DEC's former Unix-variant, and Digital Unix is their current Unix-variant, based on OSF/1 code. This is what I get when I log onto the Alpha-machines in the cs-lab at my university: Last login: Thu Aug 28 09:43:06 from nonne.ii.uib.no Digital UNIX V4.0A (Rev. 464); Fri Dec 13 19:23:30 MET 1996 "uname -a" gives: OSF1 lake.ii.uib.no V4.0 464 alpha Tarjei --- GoldED 2.51.A1026/Squish UNREG * Origin: One more cup of coffee before I go (2:211/16.14) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: EC^00007 Date: 08/31/97 From: RUNE JOHANSEN Time: 01:16am \/To: LAWRENCE GARVIN (Read 2 times) Subj: UNIX Machines >> Doesn't that mean that saying "SCO owns Unix" is a bit premature? >> ;-) > Nope. It's a fact. Haven't they transferred the ownership of the "Unix" name to the Open Group? >> Unix has evolved quite a bit during the years. Owning stone-age >> source is IMHO quite irrelevant. >Erik.... the source code they own is the AT&T SVR4.2, SVR4.0, and SVR3.x sourc > code. How much more current do you want it to be? They have released a beta of SCO UnixWare Gemini, that is _the_ SVR5. I have a copy (obtained at SCO Forum97), that I am to test next week. >And just to scare things up a bit more, don't forget that Microsoft owns 14% o > SCO. :) It does not seem to be any downside to it, as Microsoft is not taking advantage of it by building operating systems that can be business critical for the existing applications large customers use... Quote from the Forum: "If all people and businesses had been switching their software and hardware to newer versions all the time, and not sticking to what they use, we would have no Y2K problems.." --- BBBS/2 v3.42 ToMmIk-6v * Origin: BarCode BBS - now with ISDN at 47-67061044 (2:210/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: EC^00008 Date: 08/30/97 From: WILLIAM HURN Time: 09:19pm \/To: DENNIS MCCUNNEY (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: UNIX Machines -=> Quoting Dennis Mccunney to William Hurn <=- DM> A rough summary of years of tangled history, and not guaranteed to be DM> perfectly accurate, but you asked: < Much very tangled history deleted > DM> Does that make it a bit clearer? :-) Wow... this must be an actual chronology because Earnest Hemingway couldn't have made it up! I really enjoyed reading it and have already sent copies to several friends. Thanks. --- * Origin: D.M.U.G. BBS Dayton Ohio (1:110/69) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: ED100000 Date: 08/31/97 From: PAUL SULLIVAN Time: 04:18pm \/To: LAWRENCE GARVIN (Read 2 times) Subj: What echo? LG> In fact, I would prefer using FreeBSD to Linux, Ok, you've tweaked my interest in FreeBSD. But how exactly is it a better implementation than Linux? Ease of installation, use? Paul --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: High Wierdness (1:124/8035) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: ED100001 Date: 08/31/97 From: LAWRENCE GARVIN Time: 08:49am \/To: JONATHAN MICHAELS (Read 2 times) Subj: UNIX Machines Jonathan Michaels said in a message to Lawrence Garvin: JM> the then unix was sold off by novell to a consortium made up of sco JM> and hewlett-packard (hp) .. form memory, it was a 50/50 split as to JM> the rigts of ownership and payment. Your memory is faulty. :) While HP and SCO are collaborating on development of a 64-bit Unix, HP does not hold any legal interest in the Unix sold to SCO by Novell, previously acquired from AT&T/USL/NCR. --- * Origin: lawrence@eforest.houston.tx.us (1:106/6018)