--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3A00008 Date: 02/27/96 From: NEETI RAY Time: 11:35am \/To: DRAZEN MATIJACIC (Read 6 times) Subj: Unix Editor Drazen on 02/26/96 said to Max, DM>MB> I don't know about you, but to me 7 megs for a text editor seems a little DM>MB> excessive. I have this editor called Joe which is Emacs-like, and it only DM>MB> uses about 250k. DM> DM>Emacs is actualy what you want. In basics, it is lisp interpreter, so you DM>can write a programs for it. You can write your own hanoi tower or any DM>trash like that, but also you can write anything what you want. DM> DM>From that reason emacs can be runned as integrated development platform, DM>or platform for writeing tex documents, or platform for writeing a DM>postscript files, or anything whot you want. joe wouldn't ever be that. I have MULE, MUlti Lingual Extension to Emacs, that allows you to use Emacs to edit/display Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Arabic, Hebrew, Cyrillic etc. The distribution is another 18megs in itself. There's also WWW browsers, news readers, mail readers for Emacs. I'm pretty sure I saw a forms package and a RDBMS that runs under Emacs too. It's also a good thing Joe won't ever _be_ Emacs. 20 users using Joe versus 20 using Emacs could make a small difference on many Unix machines :). Kin Lau (gabe@io.org) --- * UniQWK v3.3a* The Solution for Multilingual Messages --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348 * Origin: FidoNet: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario (1:229/15) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3A00009 Date: 03/03/96 From: YOUSUF KHAN Time: 07:27pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 6 times) Subj: cheaper systems JS> Yousuf Khan wrote in a message to Neeti Ray: YK>Somehow the concept of Unix and cheaper systems seems oxymoronic. The > Depends on how you look at it. I've seen VAR's try to package a >half- dozen Windoze PC's w/ 8megs each and a NT server to run some >company's big database. > Write that same app on a Unix multi-user box and *much* cheaper >terminals and voila, a big cost savings and the whole thing will >probably be more crash proof, secure and probably faster too. JS> He's right on with this Yousuf. YK> Nobody is going to put up with textual terminals these days. JS> We've been running 10,000 users on our net, all with monochrome Unix JS> terminals, and just recently installed around 1000 PC's JS> and the users have been BITCHING up a storm, over the JS> normal crashes, (our Unixes boxes virtually NEVER JS> crash) but surprisingly, they don't really like the JS> color all that much, complain its hard on the eyes. JS> They also complain the PC's a FAR too complicated for JS> them, they are right, UNIX is simple, long as you are JS> an end user, and, Unix is much simpler than PC's from JS> the administrators view point. Boy oh boy, life would be so simple if we could all stay stuck in 1980, Jack. :-) Yousuf Khan --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: Ready & Determined (1:163/506) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3A00010 Date: 03/05/96 From: NEETI RAY Time: 11:17am \/To: LAWRENCE GARVIN (Read 6 times) Subj: Linux anyone? Lawrence on 03/05/96 said to Bob, LG>BOB NIGHTINGALE said in a message to HORACE STEWART: LG> LG>-=> Quoting Horace Stewart to All <=- LG> LG>HS> Hello everyone I would like to learn Unix and I've heard that LG>HS> Linux should be handy for first timers. Where can I get this and LG>HS> would you suggest I buy it from one of those book/CD bundles. LG>HS> I also have a 10base 2 Novell 3.12 network and would like to LG>HS> interconnect them. Any anticipated problems? I also heard that I LG>HS> can do multiple independent partitions and load several OSs over LG>HS> top of these partitions. Is this true and how do I do this. LG> LG>BN> Eeek! Linux is not what I'd call a beginner's Unix. LG> LG>Agreed, but ironic in that this seems to be the major market segment of he LG>product. :) *Is* there such a thing as a beginner's Unix? Seriously though, for a beginner, Linux is pretty well the closest if not the _most_ suited... unless you're running really old hardware, in which case Minix is your only choice. FreeBSD & NetBSD are good too, but the list of supported hardware is *much* shorter. As it is, there is certainly much more "newbie" documentation for Linux than anything else, but I'll certain commend FreeBSD's recent efforts w/ documentation. Kin Lau (gabe@io.org) --- * UniQWK v3.3a* The Windows Mail Reader --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348 * Origin: FidoNet: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario (1:229/15) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3A00011 Date: 03/05/96 From: NEETI RAY Time: 11:52am \/To: BOB NIGHTINGALE (Read 6 times) Subj: Free??? Bob on 03/04/96 said to Ken, BN>That is because a student is learning the OS at the expense of his BN>own time. I work for a company that charges tens of thousands of BN>dollars for Unix system administration utilities. If you hire a Unix BN>system administrator for $50,000 per year, you're least expensive BN>component of your back office operatation is the operating system. Quite true. Interesting to note that many commercial systems are using free GNU tools anyways, the same as on the free Unices. But what about installations where the Unix box is a turnkey operation, no dedicated admin? A few thousand here and there will definitely make a difference between the consultant getting the contract or not. BTW, many students are not typically inclined to pay $xxx for an OS when there's a nice quick free Net connection right on campus. I've found too that most Universities in fact have one/several/all of the free Unices available on the local server and also actively support and use them. MIT, Stanford, Cornell, UNC, Berkeley etc are where many of the unix apps/utils were developed. My ISP just recently switched from BSDi to FreeBSD on all their machines, and performance has jumped up considerably, as well as being more reliable. BN>Until Linux can get a port to some big iron (Amdahl, Pyramid, BN>etc.), it's not going to compete with the big dogs. To port and BN>support the Linux OS with the same level of satisfaction as other BN>target platforms, we estimate it would cost about $100,000 per BN>product--the same as SCO Unix. Interesting... what _alternate_ OS's are there for Amdahl, Pyramid etc? They are quite the different breed of animal altogether aren't they? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't find Solaris or SCO on the above either. It's true that the cost of supporting a Unix OS regardless of whether it's free or not can be pretty well the same. A friend of mine was _introduced_ to Linux by his friends who work at SCO, because they use Linux too. BN>So far the only commercial use for Linux has been for pre-packaged BN>internet firewalls. Again the most expensive part of a firewall is BN>the vendor's consulting time--not the OS. There's also ISP's, webservers, general servers etc. If you need big iron, then you're stuck/have_to_get big iron. If you can do w/ PC class machines, then Linux or the BSD's are an option. One might also note that w/ DEC Alpha's (Linux/NetBSD), Intel SMP (Linux), PentiumPro (Linux/FreeBSD/NetBSD) and PPC's (Linux) all starting to encroach on big/medium iron territory, perhaps Linux or the BSD's will start "running w/ the big dogs". Kin Lau (gabe@io.org) --- * UniQWK v3.3a* The Solution for Multilingual Messages --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348 * Origin: FidoNet: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario (1:229/15) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3B00000 Date: 03/06/96 From: TERRY GOODE Time: 11:54am \/To: DUSTIN LOFTIS (Read 7 times) Subj: unix DL> If I had some money, I'd probably buy a DEC Alpha DL> too... I don't know a DL> lot of people that wouldn't... but you know, if I DL> really had some money DL> I think I'd buy a Sun notebook of some incredible performance. just finished setting one up (sparcbook3) using Tadpole's cd,its ok but to refrance a car its a ford falcon compaired to my sparc5(galixie)heheh a lot is stripped out of the system. terry g. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: THE GOLDEN COCO other's COMPUTER (1:106/941) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3B00001 Date: 03/05/96 From: JOHN TAMANINI Time: 08:31pm \/To: ALL (Read 7 times) Subj: Linux anyone? * In a message originally to BOB NIGHTINGALE, Lawrence Garvin said: > BOB NIGHTINGALE said in a message to HORACE STEWART: > -=> Quoting Horace Stewart to All <=- > HS> Hello everyone I would like to learn Unix and I've heard that > HS> Linux should be handy for first timers. Where can I get this and > HS> would you suggest I buy it from one of those book/CD bundles. > HS> I also have a 10base 2 Novell 3.12 network and would like to > HS> interconnect them. Any anticipated problems? I also heard that I > HS> can do multiple independent partitions and load several OSs over > HS> top of these partitions. Is this true and how do I do this. > BN> Eeek! Linux is not what I'd call a beginner's Unix. > Agreed, but ironic in that this seems to be the major market > segment of the product. :) > lawrence@garvin.hd.co.harris.tx.us > --- > * Origin: The Enchanted Forest | Houston, Texas (1:106/6018) hello i would also like to know were i could get a copy of Linux from Thanx john --- FMail 0.94 * Origin: The Public's Domain BBS Martinez, GA (307)860-5070 (1:360/14) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3B00002 Date: 03/05/96 From: JOHN TAMANINI Time: 08:33pm \/To: PAUL DITTRICH (Read 7 times) Subj: Linux versions? * In a message originally to Dustin Loftis, Paul Dittrich said: > Hi Dustin Loftis, hope you are having a nice day > 28-Feb-96 20:09:00, Dustin Loftis wrote to All > DL> looking for superior operating environments and I'm interested in > linux, > DL> but I have some questions... > The LINUX echo is where you want to be, but quickly: > DL> 1) What version/CD Set/or Book-CD Set is the best? (Opinion?) > > Slackware > DL> 2) What is an excellent book to learn it? > Linux Unleashed > DL> 3) How close are we to windows compatability? > DL> 4) How close are we to Windows 32bit compatability? > Not very. > DL> 5) How compatible is it with standard UNIX programs? > Very. > DL> 7) How well will it run on a 486 dx4/100 Intel chip w/ 16MB Ram? > Fast! > DL> 9) And Lastly, what is your suggestion for XWindows to run under > Linux? > Included. > -=> Yours sincerely, Paul Dittrich <=- > --- Terminate 3.00/Pro > * Origin: Have you ever been TERMINATEd ? (1:142/736.1) were could i download a version of this Linux Slackware from? --- FMail 0.94 * Origin: The Public's Domain BBS Martinez, GA (307)860-5070 (1:360/14) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3B00003 Date: 03/05/96 From: ED VONCKEN Time: 10:43am \/To: ALL (Read 8 times) Subj: Good book on security, anyone? Hello *nix gurus, I've been working with Unix for a couple of years now, and I've come to the point of running a *nix on one of my PC's (Linux FYI). I am still looking for a *good* book on Unix security, covering basic to advanced techniques. I am not so much looking for answers like "make chown uucp.uucp and everything will be fine" but more for the *backgrounds* of that decision, WHY it should be 'uucp.uucp' and not 'root.uucp' or whatever. For example, very simple questions that I would like answered: If I offer anon FTP, the ftpd is usually group ftp. - What is the effective UID/GID of the anon user that accesses my FTP? - What protection/ownership should the publicly accessible files have? Is it for example OK for them to be 644/root.root? - Where should I expect to find security holes? - How do I detect them? - How can I prevent them? Probably very stupid questions, but once in a while I'm still uncertain of the security consequences if I for example chown a file or program. Greetings, /--- /--\ /-- / / /--- /---/. --- MBM v3.41d * Origin: Error finding REALITY.SYS - Universe halted. (2:500/131.6290) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3C00000 Date: 03/05/96 From: STEVE ROY Time: 06:27pm \/To: JONATHAN NASH (Read 7 times) Subj: file space Jonathan Nash wrote in a message to All: JN> Is there a unix command to tell you how much space all the JN> files in a directory and all of its subdirectories take up ? JN> I dont think ls can do this ... thanks.... du No Worries! Steve sroy@jumppoint.com <-- (belly button account) --- timEd-B9 * Origin: Serendipity BBS, BC Canada [604] 599-3820 (1:153/916) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 176 UNIX Ref: D3C00001 Date: 03/04/96 From: JOHN POLTORAK Time: 09:27am \/To: JEFF COLE (Read 7 times) Subj: GIF VIEWER FOR UNIX?? Tuesday February 27 1996, Jeff Cole writes to Uldis Mikelsons: >> JC> Well, that's a problem. The network has Xwindows, but most people >> hmmm .. from command line .. on vt100 terminal ? hmm convert it to >> ascii then maybe that will be real to view on that terminal .. JC> Well, the computers that are accessing the network aare running Windows. JC> You can't d/l the file as it is a telnet program not a terminal program. JC> :( You can if you use Kermit as your telnet program, or if you have zmodem available at either end. John