--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00074 Date: 12/08/93 From: THOMAS WEAVER Time: 06:58pm \/To: FRED TOWNER (Read 3 times) Subj: I can name you three righ FT>Hi ``Gath... FT>26 Nov 93, ``Gath Of Baal`` IceNET wrote to ALL: FT> `OBI> In Gore's book "Earth In The Balance", if one takes the time to read > `OBI> [gag], one will find that Gore explains EVERY SINGLE issue from the > `OBI> (non-existant) global warming, to the (much debated) hole in the ozon > `OBI> layer as "The Single Most Deadly Issue" facing enviromentalists today > `OBI> The press never said a word, but many conservative journals carrie > `OBI> references to his stories. FT> I've never read Gore's book, nor do I like him, either as a V-P > or as a person (from what I've seen of him in action), however, > I can assure you that global warming is indeed a fact, and is > NOT debated as to whether or not it is fact, but only as to how > much it will be, and what can reverse (or at least stop) the > trend. FT> Global warming of only 4 degrees Celsius would be an unmitigated > disaster for most inhabited parts of the world today. We are > presently in the midst of a major climatic change. You don't > need to do much more than look at the series of unprecedented > storms that have occurred in many areas over the past few years > to see that. You will also see drought in areas that have > rarely known drought, and torrential rainfalls in areas that are > normally arid. FT> Talk to any old timer about what weather was like when they were > kids, and compare that with what is happening in the same area > today. FT> As for the ozone hole, that has been measured VERY CAREFULLY in > both the arctic and antarctic constantly since IGY in 1957. > Some of the research I was involved in at that time was the > development of the equipment needed to take these measurements. > These holes are very real, and growing so rapidly in the last > few years that many scientists now believe we are at a crisis. From what I've read the one listed as the arctic hole is actually located near the Northeastern part of the United States. The only photo I've seen (many years ago) showed the arctic hole beginning near Mass. My, unscientific, guess at the time was that the inertia would move the hole closer to the northern axis. FT> For proof of this, one need only consult the records of UV > radiation in the area in which they live, going back to day one > of the measurements in your area. You will see that, compared > on a month for month basis over the years, the UV index has been > rising constantly. This is a direct result of the thinning of > the ozone layer. FT> So Gath, or whatever your name may be, whether you choose to > believe it or not, these two items are very real, and have the > potential for doing damage to mankind on a scale never before > dreamt of. FT> I suggest you go to the nearest library and do some reading on > the subject, rather than taking your knowledge from a rather > narrow stream of uninformed opinion. Although its been some time since I was initially interested what Fred says is correct. Why did I become un-interested? When no one, locally, gave a damm or even believed me. They think its an iffie story at best. That's why I am staying in Florida cause in a few years none of the tourists will ever come here. Why the UV burns will occur in an hour or so.... * OLX 2.1 TD * It's life Fred, But not as we knew it!! --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Vertrauen - Home of Synchronet - (714) 529-5313 (1:103/705) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00075 Date: 12/08/93 From: THOMAS WEAVER Time: 06:59pm \/To: LYNN WALLACE (Read 3 times) Subj: irritating LW>LW>Of course not. NAFTA is a trade agreement. Our legal system's >LW>strength will be unaffected by NAFTA. LW>LW>MH>You obvioulsy haven't read NAFTA or the side agreements. LW>LW>Michelle, I just read Bob Madden's repeated accusations that I >LW>never back anything up. You continue to make claims that imply >LW>a knowledge of NAFTA, knowing I will challenged you to back them >LW>up. LW>MH>Lynn, you quoted my entire message here which means that it was >MH>just not an accident that you misspelled my name inside the >MH>message, but that you actually had to go out of your way to >MH>misspell it in to TO: spot. LW>A typo. Or two. A little more than a typo or two. LW>MH>It's obvious your only intention is to try and irritate people, >MH>and I don't even believe you believe the dribble you espouse >MH>here. So go try and bother somebody else. You don't bother >MH>me...I've got better things to do with my time than waste it >MH>talking with you. LW>If I were trying to irritate you, you'd have given up long >before now. If you want to use the misspelling of your name as >an excuse to beg off from the discussion, so be it. But don't >expect to hold your own in future debates if you feign such >sensitivity. Despite what you believe you are NOT the pearl of great price nor the concubine of Brigham Young. Discussions for the most part contain facts not heresay and/or something someone would like to believe. Fact=something that has been OBJECTIVELY verified. Having real demonstrable existence. Events determined by evidence; note, that interpretation of law is not fact. It would seem that some salt-likkers keep the same sort of rules for their libelious lives as they do for their religions. * OLX 2.1 TD * Never, Never Try To Milk A Bull! --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Vertrauen - Home of Synchronet - (714) 529-5313 (1:103/705) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00076 Date: 12/08/93 From: THOMAS WEAVER Time: 06:59pm \/To: BILL HAYES (Read 3 times) Subj: Ron Brown/Traitor BH>Since Bill Starr wrote to All about Ron Brown/Traitor BH> BS> Probably by now with a Clinton tap on my phone BH> Join the club. Fellows - if what you think is true (phone taps) I fully expect the FBI or the Secret Service to haul me off (in a white wrap-around coat) any day now 'cause I write "exactly" what I think to the President, Senator, and Congressman. Hmmm. They may have a looney mail bin which has my name on it. I have a friend who read a copy of one I wrote to a certain Senator. When he finished reading it - he dropped it on the floor and said it was too hot to hold and kept looking out the windows and asking, "Just what DAY did You mail that?" And after a few seconds of observation, yanked open my front door, and ran to his vehicle. He was gone in thirty seconds. Called him once but he insisted I place my calls from a pay phone on the other side of the city. * OLX 2.1 TD * Not All Klingons Live In Outer Space... --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Vertrauen - Home of Synchronet - (714) 529-5313 (1:103/705) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00077 Date: 12/08/93 From: THOMAS WEAVER Time: 06:59pm \/To: STEVE GERWECK (Read 3 times) Subj: NAFTA debate SG> -=> Quoting Dudley Wilson to Steve Gerweck <=- SG> DW> Don't you think the $7,500,000.00 per vote probably had a little more > DW> to do with it? President Clinton's advisors admitted the day after the > DW> debate on CNN that their strategy was to "discredit Perot" adn "not > DW> talk about NAFTA". Now are we really stupid enough to think that the > DW> media coverage was unbias and the government did what was right for > DW> America. SG>And Perot admitted that he knew the 'discredit' angle was coming and he wasn >prepared for it. Perot underestimated the Clinton Administration. Before t >debate, the momentum started to shift to the pro-nafta forces. Perot had a >golden chance to swing the momentum back to our side. Instead, he came off >as a 'hot' head.. which made Al Bore look like a saint. :( SG>Steve Steve, you've pegged it "EXACTLY". In fact we that watched it were sure that Perot was going to ignore the allegations and press ahead with pictures (not that measley one) and show the people the true conditions and not at just one location. Show a blow-up of a worker's paycheck, show pictures of where they (the average mexican) shops, the city water supply, sewage, etc. A golden opportunity down the toilet. My personal belief is that Perot has an ego problem (lately) and thinks his presence alone is enough which I believe is a staff problem. He is too insulated from the real scenery concerning what HE needs to do. Flying around the country and making these 30 minute sound bytes speechs is appealing and all but doesn't get to the job at hand. Someone tell him to stay home and do his homework. And find us a list of canidates that we would like to have for our future president and vice-presidents. Tell him to ignore the televison commercials. Use the newspapers if he wants to advertise. Use Fido. Use Internet. Use CompuServe. Introduce the new canidates for national office this next 94 winter right after the bottom falls out of the economy and stock markets. And, for gawd's sake, don't use that dummy Larry King show to introduce them on. Use the CNN newsroom (the other networks can drag their cameras in there [hee-hee, that tickles]). SG>--- WM v3.10/93-0552 > * Origin: Computer Alley BBS - Monroe Net Host - (1:2380/100) * OLX 2.1 TD * Honest, I DID see Elvis in the grocery store --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Vertrauen - Home of Synchronet - (714) 529-5313 (1:103/705) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00078 Date: 12/08/93 From: THOMAS WEAVER Time: 06:59pm \/To: FRED TOWNER (Read 3 times) Subj: definitions FT>Hi John... FT>29 Nov 93, John Pierce wrote to All: FT> JP> Limbaugh is not a conservative, he is an elitist. FT> Rather than being either a conservative or an elitist, I believe > he's nothing more than a showman who's found a schtick that > works. He'll play it as long as people will buy it. When they > no longer buy it he'll either dig up a new schtick, or become > unemployed. FT> JP> Clinton is not a > JP> liberal, or a socialist, he is a Marxist and a sociopath. FT> Don't get me wrong, Clinton is not very high on my list of > popular people. In fact I'd place him on par with Canada's own > deposed ex-prime minister, Brian Mulroney. However, you have > made some rather specific charges against Clinton. Before I > accept your word that he is a Marxist and a sociopath, I'd like > to see some evidence to back up these charges. Do you have any? > Or am I simply to accept this as political rhetoric? Fred, I suspect that he got carried away, away... because if Clinton is not a liberal I am a shuck and jive rap artist. I mean its one thing to get worked up over but to start throwing labels such as Marxist and sociopath around; nah, its political rhetoric - gotta be. John's probably one of the guys that stood, half-hidden in the back of the crowd and gave the thumbs down when Pilate asked, "Should I release him?". * OLX 2.1 TD * Me, indecisive? I don't think I am, do you? --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Vertrauen - Home of Synchronet - (714) 529-5313 (1:103/705) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00079 Date: 12/08/93 From: DAVE STODDARD Time: 01:27pm \/To: MICHELE H. (Read 3 times) Subj: 6 days left > AA>we should run both echos concurrently for a few weeks to make sure > ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > This is a good idea huh? Is it possible??? Maybe it's been > discussed already...I'm 270 messages behind! Well, it bears repeating. Changing the name of the echo is like changing vanity license plates on your car. You take off the old, put on the new. It's the same car... Besides, my wildly successful Netmail Bombing Run has informed North America, including the *C structure, all the hubs on the backbone, etc. etc. - it's too late to turn back now. --- Mad Enough Yet? * Origin: Moderator, PEROT (1:2613/101) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00080 Date: 12/08/93 From: JACK STILL Time: 10:53pm \/To: DAVE STODDARD (Read 3 times) Subj: NAME CHANGE On Dec 06 1993 05:33, Dave Stoddard, 1:2613/101 wrote: DS> This echo will officially become the UWSA echo. DS> What does this mean to you? It means that we're going to DS> have some pains, because we may not all make the transition DS> smoothly. We may lose some nodes. Heck, we may gain some. DS> December 12th. DS> Sunday Night. DS> PEROT becomes UWSA. One vote no. If someone would look at fidonet.na or a internet list and they seen Perot and UWSA Everyone knows Perot but it's not likely that someone would know what UWSA means. For the most exposure let's keep it Perot. --- Msgedsq 2.2e * Origin: Mdtn_BBS Point #3 717.948.0212 (1:270/211.3) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00081 Date: 12/07/93 From: WADE MCCARTHY Time: 12:32pm \/To: BILL MORGAN (Read 3 times) Subj: NAFTA In article 'NAFTA', BILL MORGAN wrote: BM> > The logic behind the idea that we're all going to be poor as BM>aresult of BM> >free trade escapes me. This rich get richer- poor get poorer mentality BM>makes BM> >no sense. How will the rich get richer if none of us have any money? BM>Even i BM> >we absorbed the entire Mexican population (meaning they all moved up BM>here an BM> >none of them had a job) we would still have over 15,000 ($15,000) per BM>capita BM> >GNP. They are not going to sink us. BM>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= BM>Joey, BM>That is making the socialistic assumption that all would share equally BM>in GNP. The problem is that those who need the most (the Mexicans) BM>would be taking from those who have the least (the poor and middle BM>classes) and the top 10-15% would still be hanging on to most of theirs. BM>Remember, Karl Marx favored free trade for the intra-class dissension it BM>would cause. Absorbing Mexico's millions of poor would simply drag most BM>of America down toward their level and drastically widen the gap between BM>haves and have-nots. BM>That is why Hilly allowed bubba to promote NAFTA. The fallout will BM>expedite her dream of the Socialist States of Amerika. BM>Bill, in KC BM> BM> * QMPro 1.02 41-9802 * Like bubba, Karl Marx endorsed "free trade." BM> Get a grip. Karl Marx is not evil. Free trade is not evil. Hillary Clinton is not a marxist. You're so full of it, I'm afraid you'll never have all the facts. Yes, NAFTA is a short-term blow to our economy. We passed NAFTA not exclusively for the trade-offs, we joined Mexico before someone else did. We took the opportunity to make Mexico our trade ally not enemy. Thus, saving us a lot of damage down the road. Be honest. Your whining because you're a republican and your "team" lost the election. That's just stupid. --- EXCELSIOR! BBS v1.15; XMAIL! v1.113 * Origin:oblique strategies (1:151/2308.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00082 Date: 12/07/93 From: WADE MCCARTHY Time: 12:50pm \/To: BILL MORGAN (Read 3 times) Subj: Brady Bill Vote I tell you what. We'll add a clause. "In case the U.S. is invaded, the Brady Bill will be temporarily suspended."-how's that. Maybe then we can get some of those automatic machines guns and hollow-point shells banned until such a time also. Is there a limit to how many guns a non-commercial citizen may own? I wish there was a test for NRA membership. I think it should go like this: You have to survive walking through downtown L.A. or Miami , at night, unarmed. or maybe you must get shot in the leg or arm to know the reality of guns versus our constitutional rights, then you may become a member. Either way, guns kill people right now, you may just have to live with it. Why don't you think that the U.S. has enough military power to vanquish an invasion? Jets, Tanks, Troops, Naval Support, and Intelligence should be enough to protect our buts from other countries, but who's going to protect us from ourselves? Not you, huh. --- EXCELSIOR! BBS v1.15; XMAIL! v1.113 * Origin:oblique strategies (1:151/2308.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 168 PEROT Ref: AGE00083 Date: 12/08/93 From: F R KELLY Time: 10:16am \/To: CHARLES EVANS (Read 3 times) Subj: BBS Systems on other nets CE> Al Gore is a joke, but when he can make CE>somebody else look like a whimpering, sniveling schoolboy, that person CE>is REALLY ineffective. The only thing that I have against Al is Tipper. In a moderated debate, the man is a killer. He doesn't lose his cool (a necessity for a good debater). As we saw, Perot DID get bent out of shape and it hurt him. I imagine that that debate was partially responsible for the passage of NAFTA. When Clinton first announced that he supported NAFTA, I figured that it was a done deal. After all, when a democrat supports anything that a republican did, (or vice versa) you can generally figure that it's all over but the voting. The press had a lot to do with this also. They were pushing the idea that the vote was going down to the wire like the budget vote did... They were wrong. The margin was much wider than they had predicted. In my opinion, they knew all along that it was going to pass and they were just pushing the closeness of the vote as a way to increase their ratings and to make people believe that this is still a democracy instead of the plutocracy that it has become. --- EXCELSIOR! BBS v1.15; XMAIL! v1.113 * Origin:oblique strategies (1:151/2308.0)