--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00040 Date: 04/09/98 From: DAVE SHIPMAN Time: 12:06pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target 12:06:0004/09/98 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980409115508.0099fde0@mail.ewol.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST At 02:06 AM 4/9/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Dean wrote: >--[ ORIGINAL MESSAGE ]----------------- > >In a message dated 98-04-07 01:07:42 EDT, you write: > ><< Between the lines is yet another call for a national registry of all guns >and gun owners. >> > > >None of this between the lines stuff. It is possible to read anything you want >"between the lines". > >WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE STATED HCI GOALS. I strongly object to any stated policy that seeks to regulate or control all firearms other than those used for "legitimate hunting or sporting uses". I object to any organization that feels it has the right to decide what constitutes "legitimate hunting or sporting uses". I particularly object to the graphic on the HCI home page that states that the person who is most likely to kill you already has the key to your front door with the inference that a hand gun will be the MO. > >The silence is deafening. > >dtf This is an air gun list. Most of the people on this list are just ignoring your. If you are seeking an argument about HCI goals you will not find much of one here. Try the GSL (Guns Save Lives) or FAP (FireArm Politics). DLS --------------------------------------------------- "If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson and we should blame pencils for misspelled words!" - HP Meadows --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00041 Date: 04/09/98 From: TRADERMIC@ROCKETMAIL.COM Time: 01:06pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target 13:06:0004/09/98 Message-ID: <19980409160940.13260.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST ---Fletcheror wrote: > > By the way, what would you include as, or determine what is, evidence of > crimminal intent? Isn't that the argument that gun control people are using > against the assault weapons? Guns with no possible legitimate use. I have never seen a device with no possible legitimate use. As far as serious use goes, I seem to recall the assault weapons ban eliminating a Colt competition gun which had no competitive substitute in certain events. Unless, of course, target competition is not a legitimate use. Would you say a cheap SKS with armor piercing ammo has no possible legitimate use? A relative of mine owns such, and it has provided a lot of legal entertainment, which I consider legitimate use, you just need a lot of earth for a backstop, as it will penetrate a 3/8" (10mm) steel target. Any gun can be used for informal plinking, which certain anti-gunners don't seem to find legitimate. >You don't think that crimes committed with guns should be agressively >prosecuted. So, armed robbery is no worst than shoplifting? >dtf I think that Jim means that armed robbery with a knife or baseball bat is no worse than armed robbery with a gun. I don't believe anybody here is advocating that our legal system equate theft with robbery. I therefore suggest you find a more suitable straw-man for this arguement. The only arguements I can think of favoring harsher punishment for gun crimes is that it can make a thoughtful criminal use other weapons, thus altering the gun crime statistics and making it harder to claim that guns are a problem, and that it can keep violent predators separated from the public for longer periods. In Michigan, we have a mandatory 2 year additional sentence for possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony. Some prosecuting attorneys with overcrowded jails have been ignoring this law in order to cut deals with armed robbers to keep them out of jail. BTW, if anybody is getting tired of this discussion, just dump any message with HCI in the subject line into your trash folder, it doesn't show much sign of ending soon. Mitch. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00042 Date: 04/09/98 From: HAMILTON, ROBERT E,, DMD Time: 01:06pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target 13:06:0004/09/98 Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST dtf: Where is your evidence that the HCI letter is "bogus"? .... their track record of political activism is in accord with such stated intentions. You are frustrating to argue with because of your habit of casually dismissing any evidence not in support of your position(s). In this case, without supporting evidence you call the reported HCI letter as "bogus". You focus on HCI advertising without checking beneath the surface. I assume you must believe all advertising ("Tide washes clothes whiter than white! Hurry, dtf, go buy!). I assume you believe politicians' promises...."the most ethical administration ever", "Republicans will cut Social Security", etc. You pulled the same stunt previously with your ".177 caliber is unhumane for hunting" online campaign. Despite much field evidence to the contrary and an amazing lack of evidence supporting your assertion, you continued to claim .177 is an unhumane airarm caliber to use for airarm hunting long past the time when most everyone else was sick and tired of the argument. Since you specialize in strong arguments in favor of unsupported by the facts type views, let me suggest a new topic for you to adopt. It is this: The world is flat. Avoid long ocean trips. Your ship will just fall off the edge. This was previously politically correct thought. Just believe it. Accept it. Argue for it. Don't let field evidence to the contrary persuade you different. Don't research. Just believe. Also remember, large capacity magazine f.arms have no useful purpose. Should four or five gang members ever break into your house and attempt to maim or kill you and members of your family, reach for a single shot weapon, leave the "assault" weapon in the closet/gun safe. Remember to fire a warning shot with your single shot if they continue to approach you. It's the right thing to do. Reject any evidence to the contrary as "bogus". Robert Hamilton p.s. Please fight to ban all semi-automatic airguns. Look at the Theoben Rapid7. Next it became the Rapid12. What is next!? There is no legitimate sporting purpose of these assault airguns. Fight to ban them....it's for the children! ---------- From: FletcherOR@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list AIRGUN.LIST Subject: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 7:22AM I The whole issue I have been trying to bring up is that not one person has been willing to directly contradict the stated published goals of the HCI (I never even heard of HCI until somebody posted a bogus letter on this list perported from them). It is always the same thing about "oh, it's their hidden agenda that is the real problem" That is not honest debate. Publishing bogus letters from HCI is also not honest debate. My opinion is that open and honest debate between pro and anti gun elements is extremely important. I am aware that this appears to be a minority opinion. dtf -- (Fletcheror) AirPower Information Services BBS * 610-259-2193 http://www.airpower.com Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00043 Date: 04/09/98 From: DAVE SHIPMAN Time: 01:06pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target 13:06:0004/09/98 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980409124611.007b56b0@mail.ewol.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST At 02:06 AM 4/9/98 -0500, you wrote: > Does anyone know if it is true that most criminals obtain their >guns at gun shows? I wonder. It is most certainly not true. The vast majority of transactions at the average gun show are between dealers and the public. These dealers must comply with all national, state, and local laws and regulations. Most private sellers don't find it profitable to sell at shows. There are a few outright sales but most private tables at the shows are more for trading of arms and equipment, manuals, literature, etc. > > Does the NRA have a comprehensive plan for reducing the number of >gun-related deaths in the U.S.? This is the single biggest threat to >our right to own guns (yes, I own powder-burners too)........... Gun related deaths are a fraction of what they were fifty years ago. The population has doubled while there are more than four times as many guns in private hands. The NRA has a comprehensive fire arm safety education program. The "Eddy Eagle" program for one (with the message, guns are not toys and "if you find a gun don't touch, call an adult") is aimed at ldren. >Us gun owners have to become part of the solution or we will most likely >be disposed of and dismissed as part of the problem. Let's hear >some ideas about how to reduce gun deaths and criminal use of guns! >Randy Sparks See my previous post. Both GSL and FAP are active and effective news lists. Be warned that they are very high volume. Those wanting more information contact and I will forward subscribing information. DLS ------------------------------------------------ "If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson and we should blame pencils for misspelled words!" - HP Meadows --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00044 Date: 04/09/98 From: TRADERMIC@ROCKETMAIL.COM Time: 01:06pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Model B 3-1 Message-ID: <19980409164918.16996.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST ---Greg Haynie wrote: > I recently purchased a Chinese B3-1 Air rifle. It reaaly seems to have a lot > of power also. One last thing, Is there a pistol out there that is target > worthy, with approx. 500 FPS for under $50.00? I would really like to have > a air pistol but my wife has me on a budget. > Thanks > Greg I'm not sure what a B3 is, but if it shoots, you enjoy shooting it, and it only cost $30, you got a good deal. Most of the cheaper Chinese guns have leather mainseals which should be fed a few(2-4) drops of oil every 500-1000 shots. I've also seen used Marksman Biathalon trainers for $30 or less, probably easier to cock and more accurate than a $30 Chinese gun. Match pistols costing less than $300 all shoot at less than 500 fps. There are $300 CO2 guns that can be adjusted that fast, but it wastes gas and they are usually less accurate at that setting. The most accurate pistol in the under $100 range is the Daisy 717, I bought mine used for $35, I think they're closer to $60 new. Mine shoots RWS Hobbys at 398fps, but most 717s are slower. If you get a pistol, check out the internet 10 meter competition at http://www.exit3.com/~mlisowsk/ I'd recommend shooting the pistol competition if you use cheap guns, the 10 ring on the rifle target it smaller than a pin head. Pump-up guns like the benjamin-sheridan pistols and crosman 1377 can top 500 fps, and are surprisingly accurate. I would not want to shoot a 40 shot match with one though. I recently bought a Smith&Wesson 79G for $35, and it seems to be shooting around 500fps. I can score as well with this gun as I can with my 717. I'd like to own more 78/79G S&Ws, but I seldom see them advertised. Another classic to consider would be the MKI/MKII Crosmans, you might find an ugly but good shooting one for $50. Another factor to consider is that any pneumatic or CO2 pistol that approaches 500 fps will be annoyingly loud. I'd like to keep my S&W as is for outdoor shooting and buy another to adjust for 350-400 fps for indoor shooting. The S&Ws are CO2 replicas of the S&W 41 target .22, and the crosmans are styled like the Ruger MKI and MKII .22 pistols. Mitch. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00045 Date: 04/09/98 From: LARRY DURHAM Time: 04:06pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Model B 3-1 Message-ID: <352D1F1A.EABF21D3@mindspring.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST Greg, If you like it, you didnt gedt hurt at all. You don't need us to tell you what you like do you? I heard from a reseller of Chinise ariguns that the pistol is junk. ld Greg Haynie wrote: > I recently purchased a Chinese B3-1 Air rifle. What is the opinion of this > gun? THis is my first "Real" air rifle. I only paid $30.00 for it brand > new. I didn't feel that I got hurt too bad. It reaaly seems to have a lot > of power also. One last thing, Is there a pistol out there that is target > worthy, with approx. 500 FPS for under $50.00? I would really like to have > a air pistol but my wife has me on a budget. > Thanks > Greg > Greg Haynie > 814 Castle > Seneca, KS > 66538 > > 1-785-336-2965 Home > 1-785-336-2155 Work > > gregh@parod.com > gregh@nvcs.com > > -- > (Greg Haynie) > AirPower Information Services BBS * 610-259-2193 > http://www.airpower.com Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00046 Date: 04/09/98 From: FLETCHEROR Time: 04:06pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target 16:06:0004/09/98 Message-ID: <7815107c.352d261c@aol.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST In a message dated 98-04-09 10:04:38 EDT, you write: << I don't understand why you claim the letter is bogus. It aligns with everything I've ever heard from the former HCI folks in my office at work. The letter also outlines the policies I'd be following if I were them. >> The bogus letter talks just a bit too much about secrecy and would appear to be written to reinforce fears about "secret agendas", examples from the "bogus" letter: I have marked this letter to you "confidential" because I am -> requesting that -> you avoid discussing the contents publicly for the next several -> weeks. -> please let me quickly explain our plans -- and then you will -> understand why -> both your generosity and secrecy are required -> And I wish that we could keep it secret -- 100% secret until we are -> ready to launch the campaign. I will trust in your -> silence as we prepare our citizens Campaign Against Community Gun -> Trafficking Seems the letter is talking WAY too much about keeping things secret and it just doesn't make much sense why they would want to keep it secret in the first place. If I am wrong then you and others are right and the HCI is a dishonest organization with secret agendas. Just a bit too convenient. dtf --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408)