-------------------------------------- Fletcheror wrote: > In a message dated 98-04-06 15:08:19 EDT, you write: > > << I take it you never did join the NRA. I guess theres little point in > argueing > with a guy that thinks its reasonable to stop "gun trafficking" at unshows > and that believes some types of currently legal guns should be banned from > sale is > there? > > What bugs me is you make some of your living selling gun-related items! I > personally > would never buy from you. > > ld >> > . > Come on ld quit your spewing for a minute and try to actually READ the HCI > press release (not the bogus "secret" letter) and say what it is you disagree > with. > > Isn't combating the illegal use and sale of guns in the interest of every law > abiding citizen? > > directly from HCI web site: > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGIES HELP > LAW ENFORCEMENT REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE > > (April 2, 1998, Washington, DC.) A survey and analysis conducted by the Center > to Prevent Handgun Violence > (CPHV) of 48 large urban police departments demonstrate that new strategies > developed to combat illegal gun > trafficking and reduce gun violence are having a positive effect. ON THE FRONT > LINE: MAKING GUN > INTERDICTION WORK shows that a strategic approach to gun crime, in which every > seized gun and every gun > crime is treated as a piece of an interlocking puzzle, provides law > enforcement with much better odds to combat > the trade and use of illegal firearms. > > "Every large city in America suffers from an ongoing plague of gun crime," > said Sarah Brady, chair of CPHV. "But > Boston, New York and other cities have demonstrated that we do not have to > accept gun violence as a fact of > life. This report will help law enforcement around the country in selecting > the strategies that work best for them." > > This report is the culmination of two years of research that included a > nationwide survey of urban police > departments, wherein the respondents described their efforts to reduce gun- > related crime in their jurisdictions. > Eight site visits were made to police departments with comprehensive > strategies. (Baltimore City, MD, Baltimore > County, MD Boston, MA, Buffalo, NY, Kansas City, MO, Los Angeles, CA, New York > City, NY, San Antonio, > TX.) The specific elements of these programs are presented as case studies. > > "The [eight] case studies of other cities," said New York City Police > Commissioner Howard Safir, "were > particularly interesting in that they gave me the opportunity to see how other > law enforcement agencies are > dealing with the proliferation of firearms." > > Although each city developed its own successful strategy for reducing gun > violence, certain common elements > are stressed by the report, including: > > Cooperation with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) > in exploring joint initiatives and > effective methods of using the ATFs gun tracing data. > > Standardizing gun crime investigative procedures so that each > investigation covers persistent areas of > concern -- and entering the information in a local gun database so that > the intelligence may be shared with > other units within the agency. These methods ensure that every time a gun > is seized, the circumstances of > that guns entry into the community are aggressively pursued. > > An emphasis on regulatory enforcement of firearms dealers; although ost > federally licensed gun dealer > transactions take place within the constraints of the law, one corrupt > dealer can put hundreds of guns into > criminal trafficking networks. > > Special gun trafficking training for law enforcement officers, including: > refresher courses in the laws > governing search and seizure; specific elements of gun crimes; gun > trafficking indicators; techniques for > officer safety; and firearms recognition. > > Establishment of priorities with local prosecutors and legislators. In > some localities, local prosecutors > increased emphasis on gun trafficking; in others, legislators looked to > close loopholes in gun laws that may > lead to crime. > > Additionally, most of the participating law enforcement agencies agreed on > four necessary steps for gun violence > deterrence: > > Taking guns away from criminals and youth by intensive and focused > patrolling, effective warrant service, > and in-depth interviews of everyone involved with gun-related crimes, > including witnesses. > > Deterring the use of guns through aggressive investigation of hootings, > computerized offense tracking, and > patrols by off-duty officers where there is a high risk of gun iolence. > > Removing repeat offenders from the community, including the use of > interagency and multi-jurisdictional task > forces to track and arrest career criminals. > > Offering alternatives for at-risk youth -- through school, community > center and religious programs. > > For copies of ON THE FRONT LINE: MAKING GUN INTERDICTION WORK, contact the Law > Enforcement > Relations department at the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence at (202) > 289-7319. > > -- > (Fletcheror) > AirPower Information Services BBS * 610-259-2193 > http://www.airpower.com Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4B00015 Date: 04/07/98 From: FLETCHEROR Time: 02:06am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target 02:06:0004/07/98 Message-ID: <5afbd91a.3529b474@aol.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST In a message dated 98-04-07 00:17:39 EDT, you write: << "There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men." >> What!? No dangerous weapons? Not everything dangerous is a weapon, but every weapon has to be dangerous otherwise it wouldn't be much use as a weapon now would it. Seems your man Heinlein never bothered with the messy business of studying logic. dtf --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4B00016 Date: 04/07/98 From: PHILLLLLL Time: 02:06am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: sign me on for:RATBUSTERS Message-ID: Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST I'am still having problems learning how to use the Internet. Maybe you can sign me up for your RATBUSTERS organization. I'am in Southern California area and like to hunt and field target shoot with a Air Arms S-300. Phillip Lindberg 727 Oakstone Way Anaheim, CA 92806 Phone: (714) 774-3666 --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4C00000 Date: 04/06/98 From: TONY BELDING Time: 04:13pm \/To: MR RANDAL K SPARKS (Read 0 times) Subj: Large caliber gas gun MRK> Dumb, Dumber, and the Raccoon MRK> In rural Carbon County, PA, a group of men were drinking beer and MRK> discharging firearms from the rear deck of a home owned by Irving MRK> Michaels, age 27. The men were firing at a raccoon that was wandering That's hilarious! But I don't see how it's possible without setting the guy on fire. Gasoline is dangerous stuff. -- Tony Belding --- Spot 1.3a #535 * Origin: Tony's all-powerful Amiga 3000T! (1:273/952.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4C00001 Date: 04/06/98 From: TONY BELDING Time: 07:26pm \/To: HAMILTON, ROBERT E,, DMD (Read 0 times) Subj: Philosophy of Airarm power/caliber recom19:26:4304/06/98 HRE> For a number of weeks (months), many topics have been concerned HRE> with airarm caliber recommendations ..... .177, .20, .22, .25? What HRE> is best? The recommendations have varied with a common thread of being HRE> directly related to airarm power levels, with an apparent general HRE> consensus that bigger calibers need higher power levels. That's what I've felt for a long time. HRE> (3) Beeman R7 (steel springer): HRE> This is a light target/sporter of low power (700 fps with light HRE> .177 pells is doing good....maybe a 6.5 gr HRE> Beeman Laser pellet will do that....my R7 has never come close HRE> with heavier pells). About 625 fps HRE> is claimed for it in .20 cal, but I would bet it couldn't put HRE> out a 14.3 gr .20 cal Cros Prem at anything over HRE> 400 fps.... The .20 Premier is a freakish pellet. A normal .20 pellet is more like 10 grains or maybe 11. I used Marksman FTS pellets in my .20 caliber R7 with good results, and it supposedly puts out more energy than the .177. It's just a matter of personal preferences, though. The R7 is an outstanding little rifle in either caliber. HRE> me on .22 cal velocities in this classic airarm? Correct me, HRE> ld, if you disagree....but I would venture HRE> to suggest that 12 ft/lb airarms at very good in .177 and at HRE> the bottom edge of practicality in .22 cal. That sounds reasonable. I really like my QB22 Dlx, and it does about 12 ft-lb. Although, it might possibly be even cooler in .20 caliber, if they came that way. But I tend to gravitate toward larger calibers than most folks. I feel .177 is mostly good for pistols and 10m target punching. Then .20 caliber for light sporters (like the R7) or magnum pistols (like my Sheridan Model E), and then .22 caliber for true magnum rifles. That's my rule of thumb; your mileage may vary. HRE> There is no one airarm fitting all applications (ie. a HRE> match airarm isn't much of a hunter and a hunter/sporter is handicapped HRE> in a 10 meter match when up against match airarms). Possibly an HRE> adjustable power PCP or pump up pnuematic would be the "one airarm for HRE> all reasons". But alternately (for a lot more bucks), most of us go HRE> the multiple airarm route. Also a lot more fun! Who would want to have only one air rifle? HRE> ft/lb) and a high power airarm. The low (Beeman R7 in .177) is for HRE> indoor informal target and suburb use. The medium (FWB124d) is for out HRE> in the country, but around the farm buildings. The high (R1-Watts) HRE> is for out in the countryside, away from dwellings, hunting small HRE> varmints/game that is wary and so 50 yd distances are the norm. That's what I would use my .22 Magnum for. I think super-magnum air rifles are amusing toys, but they don't have much practical use. If you're "out in the countryside" to hunt with a super-magnum air rifle, then you could simply use a firearm rifle with better results. -- Tony Belding --- Spot 1.3a #535 * Origin: Tony's all-powerful Amiga 3000T! (1:273/952.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4C00002 Date: 04/06/98 From: TONY BELDING Time: 10:41pm \/To: JIM HENRY (Read 0 times) Subj: 2 Women badmouth hunting JH> Ironically a Hollywood movie Director, Rob Reiner, made a very good JH> defense of gun ownership. Other hosts that you would consider Liberal JH> also said gun control is not the issue in Arkansaw, but rather families JH> raising children properly and juvenile justice system. But two women who JH> by most would be considered Conservative attack hunting! As always, gun rights are not a conservative issue or a liberal issue. They are a libertarian issue. -- Tony Belding --- Spot 1.3a #535 * Origin: Tony's all-powerful Amiga 3000T! (1:273/952.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00000 Date: 04/09/98 From: FLETCHEROR Time: 10:06am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target 10:06:0004/09/98 Message-ID: <49c023b0.352ccf46@aol.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST In a message dated 98-04-09 06:19:48 EDT, you write: << Most likely, and without evidence of crimninal intent or a record of past criminal action, as a free human being any law abiding gun owner should not suffer prior restraint and have any restrictions placed on his RKBA. >> I generally agree with you on this. However, I would include an age limit, a citizenship requirement, and no history of mental disease. By the way, what would you include as, or determine what is, evidence of crimminal intent? Isn't that the argument that gun control people are using against the assault weapons? Guns with no possible legitimate use. dtf --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00001 Date: 04/09/98 From: GREG HAYNIE Time: 11:07am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Model B 3-1 Message-ID: <199804091442.JAA01689@linux.parod.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST I recently purchased a Chinese B3-1 Air rifle. What is the opinion of this gun? THis is my first "Real" air rifle. I only paid $30.00 for it brand new. I didn't feel that I got hurt too bad. It reaaly seems to have a lot of power also. One last thing, Is there a pistol out there that is target worthy, with approx. 500 FPS for under $50.00? I would really like to have a air pistol but my wife has me on a budget. Thanks Greg Greg Haynie 814 Castle Seneca, KS 66538 1-785-336-2965 Home 1-785-336-2155 Work gregh@parod.com gregh@nvcs.com --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00002 Date: 04/07/98 From: JIM HENRY Time: 06:10am \/To: FLETCHEROR (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target 06:10:0004/07/98 -> << "There are no dangerous -> weapons, only dangerous men." >> -> What!? No dangerous weapons? Not everything dangerous is a weapon, -> but every weapon has to be dangerous otherwise it wouldn't be much -> use as a weapon now would it. Seems your man Heinlein never bothered -> with the messy business of studying logic. I don't know why I bother trying to reason with you. (I guess because I love to stir it up ) I could set up a mortar, or a .50 cal machine gun in my dining room, and it wouldn't hurt anybody EVER, if nobody touched it! --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 165 AIRGUNS Ref: F4E00003 Date: 04/07/98 From: TRADERMIC@ROCKETMAIL.COM Time: 09:07am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: FWD from PRN: HCI'S next target 09:07:0004/07/98 Message-ID: <19980407124505.6034.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> Newsgroups: AIRGUN.LIST ---Fletcheror wrote: > Seems your man Heinlein never bothered with the messy business of > studying logic. > dtf Naw, you've got him confused with that other sci-fi writer, Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, inventor of the sci-fi cult of scientology. He did have some great ideas, though. Rev. Moon never thought of billing the victims $200 an hour for the brainwashing sessions, but LRH did. What's this got to do with guns? Nothing. Does this mean I just "spammed" the list? Mitch. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Home of AIRGUN*HQ 610-259-2193 (1:273/408)