--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01741 Date: 05/02/98 From: STAN HARDEGREE Time: 12:00am \/To: JOSEPH LAFOON (Read 0 times) Subj: CLINTON'S MORALS JL>> or do it himself, is an impeachable offense. If he did it, JL>> he should be impeached, whether we like him or not. You JL>> can't enforce laws only on the shady criminals that nobody JL>> likes. SH>> True. SH>> But to maintain that the only difference between the greasy SH>> bastard from Arkansas and George Bush is that people know SH>> about the Arkie bastard's laundry is abnormally stupid -- SH>> perhaps the stupidest thing I have ever read here. JL> I would like to know what dirty laundry she is refering to, JL> I haven't heard of anything. Neither have I. George Bush is a man of character and a great partriot. He is the antithesis of the Pig from Arkansas. JL> I am still debating myself on the impeachment issue WRT JL> Monicagate. Although perjury is suspected, should he be JL> impeached for lying about an adulterous affair? Is that JL> really a HIGH crime? Granted, it is a felony. I seem to be JL> flip flopping, but only because I don't want my dislike for JL> the President to cloud my judgement on this issue. The country would not suffer from a little political house cleaning. A successful Clinton impeachment might serve as a warning to other scumbags with political ambition. --- * Origin: Impeach the pig in the White House (1:170/302.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01742 Date: 05/02/98 From: STAN HARDEGREE Time: 12:00am \/To: ED CONNELL (Read 0 times) Subj: Clinton Haters SH>> It's idiotic, as usual, but at least it's not about killing SH>> babies. SH>> Whew. EC> Heh, heh, heh EC> Snooping around tonight, I was surprised to locate a photo EC> of you and the start of a local journal for Villa Rica. EC> It looked like you have a good framework if you just have EC> the time, inclination and the right incentive to flesh it EC> out. Well, it had to come out eventually. With little fanfare, allow me to announce that my lovely wife and I are starting a newspaper here in our little town. My website, still in its infancy, is at www.villarica.com. --- * Origin: Proud member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy (1:170/302.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01743 Date: 05/02/98 From: STAN HARDEGREE Time: 12:00am \/To: ROSS SAUER (Read 0 times) Subj: Is the country moderate? RS> And James Carville is partisan, bitter, sarcastic, sometimes RS> even nasty, but he is NOT "mentally deficient." Judging by a debate I watched between him and Limbaugh one evening, its hard to come to the conlusion that Carville is anything but mentally deficient. When Limbaugh got finished with him, he just sat there, staring at the floor, grinning like the bumbling idiot he is. --- * Origin: New and Views from Jane Fonda's Third World (1:170/302.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01744 Date: 05/01/98 From: SAMUEL LEE Time: 07:22pm \/To: FRANK MASINGILL (Read 0 times) Subj: Religion EH> Good grief! FM> "Good grief!" is obviously a telling rebuttal that I'm just too FM> illogical to fathom. It's a Charlie Brownism frank...uttered whenever Charlie finds himself utterly exposed to the reality of the moment and incapable of responding to it... Usually he lands on his Kiester shortly thereafter... So it may be sort of appropriate... (G)... ... OFFLINE 1.50 "Klingons have Built in bottle openers!" --- EzyQwk V1.48g0 01fa0172 * Origin: Hollywood BBS * (520) 682-6560 * Tucson , Az. (1:300/514) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01745 Date: 05/02/98 From: SAMUEL LEE Time: 06:40am \/To: JOSEPH LAFOON (Read 0 times) Subj: Guns? SL> No 35 have a BETTER ratio of gun deaths to population... JL> A better ratio of gun deaths to population? As in less deaths? So we JL> are 35 out of how many nations? Less deaths per capita...I don't know how many nations were reporting, Ask Ross he posted the article. JL> That would seem good to me, considering how JL> many firearms Americans own. It might easily be GOOD... I don't have the figures in fron of me, bit I think the US has been steadily improving...and that's largely due to safety programs and education provided by the less offensive sort of Gun Owners associations... I seem to recall the article pointed out that MEXICO had a average that was DOUBLE ours...Yet in mexico Guns are esentially illegal and they have no program of saftey education. SL> Meaningless in a practical sense...yes...They won't change SL> anything. Their significance is only as a yardstick by which to SL> gauge social progress and compare the results of different SL> approachs to a similar problem...They do that pretty well... JL> Social progress? If you think gun statistics measure social progress, JL> I feel sorry for you. There are much more important things than guns to JL> gauge social progress. Sure there are...Who said there weren't...It's just one more factor in the overall picture...You can't ignore any of it...If The Gun Death Ratio makes a sudden change...You can bet it indicates some sort of shift in that societys values...if it moves steadily in one direction or the other that might indicate a social trend...None of this is "GOOD" or "BAD"...it just is.. SL> And no one is much impressed by that "Crap we Say" stuff anymore, SL> except those doing the spouting off... JL> I don't refute the statistics. I object to only the NEGATIVE JL> statistics being presented, with none of the POSITIVE statistics So WHAT is NEGATIVE about presenting the fact that the US Ranks #35 worldwide in the ratio of gun deaths to population...? It's a FACT...not some sort of universal evil... JL> So, it is BAD if a gun is JUST PRESENT at a crime scene, even if JL> it is used to STOP a crime? That is the stupidest thing I have EVER JL> heard. SL> Who said that?...that's YOUR implication...Gives you an excuse to SL> Rant & Rave... JL> YOU said that! You conveniently deleted that portion of your quote, JL> you said something to the effect of "if a gun is used to prevent JL> a crime, a crime is still happening and a gun is involved." Not me sport...You may be thinking of what Bob Sakowski said... (to Stan I think)...And I guess you don't comprehend his point... The statistic is NOT measuring GOOD or BAD...If there was a DEATH and a GUN was involved...it is statistically significant... THAT is what was being measured, and compared on a global basis. You can't do that based on cultural values because each culture has a DIFFERENT standard for what is GOOD, or what is BAD. If you want to analyse GOOD or BAD...you are developing a different statistic...one I'm sure you will find measured under crime analysis. JL> That is not a direct JL> quote, but that was the meaning I took. Ok...I understand...This is part of the reason I jumped into this thread...Ross posted an article that reported simple statistics without drawing any conclusions about their implications... Predictably...Because it didn't say "GUNS ARE GOOD", it got a "KNEEJERK RESPONSE" implying it was in some way "anti-gun"... And This kneejerk has now spread to you and others who reflexively jump on the bandwagon without ever knowing where it came from or where it's going...This sort of behavior is why the American Public no longer TRUSTS gun rights advocates... SL> Boy you really afraid of some "Meaningless" statistics arn't you? SL> Hiding the facts from the public or besmerching them with SL> irrational retoric does absolutely NOTHING for the public SL> perception of gun rights activists... JL> What irrational rhetoric have I said? Do you have one example? Something about correct statistics not being in context... Do you recall...? JL> Of course not. I don't use emotion in debate, I use facts. I can JL> understand why you don't, there are no facts supporting gun control. JL> But you knew that. If you mean to say there are no statistics supporting gun control I'd agree...Personal experience tho is a fact...and on a personal basis it can justify support for gun control...My personal experience leads me to believe that a certain amount of control is a good thing in our country...The fact that it is not EASY to obtain a gun does not deter the criminal, or the responsible gun owner, it does deter an irresponsible element that causes a dispropotionate amount of grief (DWI's, Rapes, Barfights, etc)... The Non, gun owning public has less in the way of experience to base their own judgement on...WHEN they experience GUN ADVOCATES who are behaving irrationally, contesting perfectly reasonable statistics with kneejerk emotional denials and paranoid liberal conspiracy theorys, they tend to question whether they want to confront such a person with a gun in his hand...This sort of behavior on the part of so called "gun advocates" does a LOT more harm than good...and lately seems to outweigh the controlled, rational, approach to the issue that encourages support and engenders trust... ... OFFLINE 1.50 "Borgasm: The ecstasy of being assimilated." --- EzyQwk V1.48g0 01fa0172 * Origin: Hollywood BBS * (520) 682-6560 * Tucson , Az. (1:300/514) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01746 Date: 05/02/98 From: SAMUEL LEE Time: 06:50am \/To: RUTH SCHAFFER (Read 0 times) Subj: Clinton Lovers > The charges may be frivolous...The process is not...it's > insidious... > Our SYSTEM OF JUSTICE is being abused, to play politics... RS> Exactly... there have been at least investigations into the Clintons.. RS> and NONE have come to any fruition... In a legal sense no...In a political sense they have probably dampened Clintons popularity and denied him the growth of the kind of trust and support FDR generated...The Democrats have a LONG term program in operation here and need 16-20 years to develop it fully...Just like FDR & Truman...Their opponents (not necessarily just the GOP) seek to retard their progress, deny public support, and thereby invalidate their program... If the public is as fed up as I think they are, we may see the house return to democratic control, either now...or when Gore is elected. ... OFFLINE 1.50 "For people who like peace and quiet: a phoneless cord." --- EzyQwk V1.48g0 01fa0172 * Origin: Hollywood BBS * (520) 682-6560 * Tucson , Az. (1:300/514) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01747 Date: 05/02/98 From: FRANK MASINGILL Time: 12:18pm \/To: SAMUEL LEE (Read 0 times) Subj: Religion EH> Good grief! FM> "Good grief!" is obviously a telling rebuttal that I'm just too FM> illogical to fathom. SL> It's a Charlie Brownism frank...uttered whenever Charlie finds himself SL> utterly exposed to the reality of the moment and incapable SL> of responding to it... SL> Usually he lands on his Kiester shortly thereafter... So it may be sort SL> of appropriate... (G)... I'm sure you're right; I had forgotten that. I don't object to the term except as a substitute for reasoned argument. The scatological expletives I understand because I learned them decades go as a young man on an extra gang on a railroad. I still use some of those occasionally today but being old-fashioned (and not ashamed of it) not in the presence of ladies. Sincerely, Frank --- PPoint 2.05 * Origin: FMasingill@aol.com or frankmas@juno.com (1:396/45.12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01748 Date: 05/02/98 From: FRANK MASINGILL Time: 12:24pm \/To: SAMUEL LEE (Read 0 times) Subj: Clinton Lovers On (02 May 98) Samuel Lee wrote to RUTH SCHAFFER... > The charges may be frivolous...The process is not...it's insidious... > Our SYSTEM OF JUSTICE is being abused, to play politics... RS> Exactly... there have been at least investigations into the Clintons.. RS> and NONE have come to any fruition... SL> In a legal sense no...In a political sense they have probably dampened SL> Clintons popularity and denied him the growth of the kind of trust and SL> support FDR generated...The Democrats have a LONG term program in SL> operation here and need 16-20 years to develop it fully...Just like FDR SL> & Truman...Their opponents (not necessarily just the GOP) seek to retard SL> their progress, deny public support, and thereby invalidate their SL> program... SL> If the public is as fed up as I think they are, we may see the house SL> return to democratic control, either now...or when Gore is elected. I'm not sanguine that that is going to happen any time soon although it might but reality is going to catch up with us one day. I had heard that the two large teacher unions were going to merge this summer and I've heard no more about that but will not be surprised if that happens because the attack on public education is bound to heat up. Already the ending of "welfare as e know it" is resulting only in provision for "make-work" because the advance n technology any way one sugar-coats it still means that a giant earth mover displaces several hundred human beings and one can multiply that undreds-fold as computer-driven assembly lines multiply and SOME way has to be found to cycle the PRODUCTS of those lines through some kind of human users. Even in "capitalism" if they can't buy they can't consume and what defines the person more than anything else in modern (not classical) capitalism is the absolute need for a consumer unit. Technology, of course CAN provide even for THAT in a machine that does the consuming. The luddites, however, will have THEIR ay before that is over. Jessie Helm's is the great hero of the "anti-globalists" today but reality is going to catch up with that just as it did with the "head-in-the-sand" isolationists of Nye Committee days. Sincerely, Frank --- PPoint 2.05 * Origin: FMasingill@aol.com or frankmas@juno.com (1:396/45.12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01749 Date: 05/02/98 From: CHARLES DOLL Time: 12:27pm \/To: FRANK MASINGILL (Read 0 times) Subj: "The Story of Waco." FM-> AB> Perhaps we should consider the difference between an administration an FM-> AB> a bureaucracy. FM-> Yes. Most pronounced in a "ministerial" type of governmental constructi FM->such as England where the bureacracy must continue to administer the FM->government even if suddenly one day one party is voted out and another vote FM->in. But the Civil Service Act turned an administration into a bureaucracy which now has nothing to do with a ministerial form. --- SLMR 2.1a Die for my beliefs? Course not. I could be wrong! * Origin: * PC-Help! BBS * Lutz Fl. 813-949-6588 1:377/35 28.8 v.34 (1:377/35) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 112 POLITICS Ref: F5G01750 Date: 05/02/98 From: CHARLES DOLL Time: 12:35pm \/To: ALLEN BIRKHOLZ (Read 0 times) Subj: Cato:Power Deregulation AB-> CD> 4. That won't do it because it requires the duplication of AB-> CD> facilities in an area to serve customers who are adjacent to AB-> CD> each other. The cost would double anbd the revenues would AB-> CD> halve. AB->Not necessarily. There are a few possibilities. AB->The local electric utility could convert from a AB->power provider to a power distributor. Power AB->lines could transfer from private ownership by AB->a utility to a publicly owned system like roads. Do you want to buy your power from the government, I've seen their operations in this area and I don't? Those lines would have to be bought and paid for by the government. Why convert to something it already is? AB->Perhaps a private company would come in to set AB->up another distribution network the existing network> that they would make AB->available to power producers. What's the difference between two private companies and why make it available to another power producer when we have one that already provides the power? AB->Perhaps someone will even come up with a way AB->to distribute power outside the current wire AB->system. After all, cable used to be strictly AB->by wire and now we have microwaves and satellites. AB->Same thing with phones. Used to be wires, now we AB->have microwaves and satellites and fiberoptics AB->and radio frequencies. Who knows what people AB->can come up with if we just give them the chance? They have had that chance for over a hundred years and have'nt found a way yet. It is one thing to transfer signals ,another to transfer power. --- SLMR 2.1a "I hesitate to waste criticism on unresisting imbecility" * Origin: * PC-Help! BBS * Lutz Fl. 813-949-6588 1:377/35 28.8 v.34 (1:377/35)