--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F4200076 Date: 03/29/98 From: WAYNE THOMPSON Time: 11:51am \/To: GUS GERE (Read 3 times) Subj: M1, perfect rifle? Gus was discussing "M1, perfect rifle?" with Wayne. WT> And that's why you always make sure to hang onto your empty WT> magazines, so you might NOT have to do a stripper clip reload WT> in battle... GG Loading a magazine out of a small cardboard box isn't exactly GG speedy either. Nope! That would be the "worst case" in combat. but it's also something that could quite possibly happen since military ammo comes packed that way too, although it's most likely any ammo that a soldier sees in action would be in "combat packs", packed in stripper clips in bandoleers... WT> charge the rifle, and if you're still alive after going through WT> all of that, start returning fire......... GG By which time you may have to use the bayonet on it anyhow. And I can't think of a rifle that is more poorly designed for bayonet work than an M-16. It's too short, too light, and too flimsy. And yet ANOTHER reason for choosing a "real" rifle over the "Mighty Mattel"... WT> That's yet ANOTHER reason for picking an M-14 over an M-16, WT> isn't it??? GG If you say so. I haven't had the pleausre of either yet, or GG an M-1 for that matter. Well, if you'd just come to the States for a while, there are several of us who could rectify that awful gap in your education!!! \x/7 Buttermilk and Glock pistols: Two things people either love or hate. ... Combat: If the enemy can't get in, you can't get out. --- * Member, GOA And JPFO * * Origin: Next time, Dial The Wrong Number! (209) 943-1880 (1:208/205) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F4200077 Date: 03/29/98 From: RON HOSSACK Time: 07:52am \/To: RICK NOLAN (Read 3 times) Subj: FAL In a message to Ron Hossack, RICK NOLAN says: RN> Just as a matter of interest,why does it even have an adjustable RN> gas port ? Isn't the theory that as the port becomes dirty you can turn it on so it will keep cycling? Sometimes cleaning it in a battle situation is not the best of ideals so by having the adjustable port you can keep the gun functioning until you can clean it. I have the FN and I like it. I keep the port turned down to the lowest adjustment so I can keep the recoil to a minimum and the gun still cycles. RN> Believe me,you would not want to trust your life to one. I personally would trust one of these over the M-15 which I used in 1966. EMAIL: rhossack@genesisnetwork.net or ron.hossack@juno.com http://www.genesisnetwork.net/users/hossack JABBER v1.31 #004 No, I don't know what "apathy" means, nor do I care. --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#48) * Origin: Fidonet Solid Rock of Riverside, CA (909)785-9176 V.34 (1:207/801) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F4200078 Date: 03/29/98 From: DICK DISANA Time: 10:12am \/To: BILL ESCUE (Read 3 times) Subj: Speaking Of .45 Acp Number 1: Automatic Colt Pistol --- GEcho/32 1.20/Pro * Origin: rtfm 314.843.1855 (1:100/340) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F4200079 Date: 03/28/98 From: PETE GRANZEAU Time: 04:21pm \/To: TONY BELDING (Read 3 times) Subj: M1, perfect rifle? On 26 Mar 98 03:31:08, a Gin and Tonic at the Angler's Rest overheard Tony Belding say to Pete Granzeau: PG> I think the idea was to have enough loaded magazines on hand BEFOR PG> combat began, that the business of reloading them would be unneces PG> was it not? TB>That's the theory. It doesn't always work that way in practice. If th TB>guys start blasting away with full auto "covering fire", it doesn't tak TB>long to expend their combat load of ammo and start crying for more. I note that they have essentially dropped full-auto for three shot clusters, which might slow down the ammo use. Regards, PHG phg@exis.net ... Origin: 3701'48"N 7625'38"W (UTM unavailable) * Wave Rider 1.33 # 92 * --- * Origin: Little America BBS, Williamsburg VA (1:271/140) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F4200080 Date: 03/28/98 From: PETE GRANZEAU Time: 04:23pm \/To: EARNEST PADGETTE (Read 3 times) Subj: Rifles... On 24 Mar 98 17:40:14, a Gin and Tonic at the Angler's Rest overheard Earnest Padgette say to Pete Granzeau: EP> Again, each society created a weapon best suited to it's troops EP> But the Russian pilots were very lucky they never had to pit th EP> Mig against the F-15's. They'd have lost big-time. Ernie P. But the MiG-25 wasn't designed to fight F-15s, it was designed to shoot down 747 airliners. Regards, PHG phg@exis.net ... "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." * Wave Rider 1.33 # 92 * --- * Origin: Little America BBS, Williamsburg VA (1:271/140) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F4200081 Date: 04/01/98 From: ED HARRIS Time: 12:00am \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Ed's Red (ALL) PREFACE: This is posted automagically, once a month, by the Air 'n Sun BBS, as automated by its sysop, Dave Aronson. If you have any problems with the formatting, distribution, etc., netmail Dave at 1:109/120. (EXCEPT if your problem that is you only get part of it; that is due to ancient software in use by either you or someone between me and you.) Ed is responsible for the content. Now on to the show.... ========================================================================= Date: 01-10-98 19:26 Message #: 249 AirNSun From: Ed Harris Status: PUBLIC To: All Ref #: 0 Subject: Ed's Red Revisited Conf: Firearms (72) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Ed's Red" - - Revisited By C.E., "Ed" Harris Since I mixed my first "Ed's Red" (ER) bore cleaner five years ago, hundreds of users have told me that they find it as effective as commercial products. This cleaner has an action similar to military rifle bore cleaner, such as Mil-C-372B. It is highly effective for removing plastic fouling from shotgun bores, caked carbon in semi-automatic rifles or pistols, or leading in revolvers. "ER" is not a "decoppering" solution for fast removal of heavy jacket fouling, but because is more effective in removal of caked carbon and primer residues than most other cleaners, so metal fouling is reduced when "ER" is used. I researched the subject rather thoroughly and determined there was no technical reason why an effective firearm bore cleaner couldn't be mixed using common hardware store ingredients. The resulting cleaner is safe, effective, inexpensive, provides excellent corrosion protection and adequate residual lubrication. Routine oiling after cleaning is unnecessary except for storage exceeding 1 year, or in harsh environments, such as salt air exposure. The formula is adapted from Hatcher's "Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18," but substitutes equivalent modern materials. Hatcher's recipe called for equal parts of acetone, turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil, and (optionally) 200 grams of anhydrous lanolin per liter into the cleaner. Some discussion of the ingredients in ER is helpful to understand the properties of the cleaner and how it works. Pratts Astral Oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. Today you would ask for "K1" kerosene of the type sold for use in indoor space heaters. An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron III automatic transmission fluid. Prior to 1950 most ATF's were sperm oil based. During WWII sperm oil was mostly unavailable, so highly refined, dewaxed hydrofinished petroleum oils were developed, which had excellent thermal stability. When antioxidants were added to prevent gumming these worked well in precision instruments. With the high demand for automatic transmission autos after WWII, sperm oil was no longer practical to produce ATFs in the needed quantities needed, so the wartime expedients were mass produced. ATFs have been continually improved over the years. The additives contained in Dexron include detergents or other surfactants which are highly suitable for inclusion in an all-purpose cleaner, lubricant and preservative. Hatcher's Frankford Arsenal No. 18 used gum spirits of turpentine, but turpentine is both expensive and also highly flammable, so I chose not to use it. Much safer and more inexpensive are "aliphatic mineral spirits," which are an open-chain organic solvent, rather than the closed-chain, benzene ring structure, common to "aromatics," such as naptha or "lighter fluid." Sometimes called "safety solvent," aliphatic mineral spirits are used for thinning oil based paint, as automotive parts cleaner and is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol". Acetone is included to provide an aggressive, fast-acting solvent for caked smokeless powder residues. Because acetone readily evaporates and the fumes are harmful in high concentrations, it is recommended that it be left out if the cleaner will be used indoors, in soak tanks or in enclosed spaces lacking forced air ventilation. Containers should be kept tightly closed when not in use. ER is still effective without acetone, but not as "fast-acting." "Ed's Red" does not chemically dissolve copper fouling in rifle bores, but it does a better job of removing carbon and primer residue than most othert cleaners. Many users have told me, that frequent and exclusive use of "ER" reduces copper deposits, because it removes the old impacted powder fouling left behind by other cleaners. This reduces the abrasion and adhesion of jacket metal to the bore, leaving a cleaner surface condition which reduces subsequent fouling. Experience indicates that "ER" will actually remove metal fouling in bores if if it left to "soak," for a few days so the surfactants will do the job, when followed by a repeat cleaning. You simply have to be patient. Addition of lanolin to ER is optional, because the cleaner works perfectly well and gives adequate corrosion protection and lubrication without it. Inclusion of lanolin makes the cleaner easier on the hands, increases its lubricity and film strength and improves corrosion protection if firearms, tools or equipment will be routinely exposed to salt air, water spray, or corrosive urban atmospheres. I recommend the lanolin included if you intend to use the cleaner as a protectant for long term storage or for a "flush" after water cleaning of black powder firearms or those fired with military chlorate primers. This is because lanolin has a great affinity for water and readily emulsifies so that the bore can be wiped of residual moisture, leaving a protective film. If you inspect your guns and wipe them down twice yearly, you can leave out the lanolin and save about $10 per gallon. At current retail prices you can buy all the ingredients to mix ER, without the lanolin for about $12 per gallon. I urge you to mix some yourself. I am confident it will work as well for you as it does for me and hundreds of users who got the "recipe" on the Fidonet Firearms Echo. CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner 1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later. 1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1 1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent. 1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1. (Optional 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, or OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store) MIXING INSTRUCTIONS: Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers are OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will slowly evaporate. Acetone in ER will attack HDPE over time, causing the container to collapse, making a heck of a mess! Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved. I recommend diverting up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix to use as "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining mix. Label and safety warnings follow:. FIREARM BORE CLEANER CAUTION: FLAMMABLE MIXTURE HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN Contents: petroleum distillates, surfactants, organometallic antioxidants and acetone 1. Flammable mixture, keep away from heat, sparks or flame. 2. FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician immediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with water and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly. 3. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist. It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labelling. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forced air ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or equivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use. INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE: 1. Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is most effective when done while the barrel is still warm from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale on jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore. 2. Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action. 3. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled service rifles, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use. 4. Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for 1 year under average atmospheric conditions. 5. If lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years, even in a humid environment. (For longer storage use Lee Liquid Alox or Cosmolene). "ER" will readily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene. 6. Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes. 7. Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if the bore is cleaned as described. 8. I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed's Red is used exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a flush with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APART whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the corrosive residue out. This "Recipe" has been placed in the public domain, and may be freely distributed provided that it is done so in its entirely with all current revisions, instructions and safety warnings included herein, and that proper attribution is given to the author. Reply To: ed.harris@p3006.F120.n109.z1.fidonet.org --- Squish/386 v1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-319-0714 Origin needed, apply within (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F4200082 Date: 04/01/98 From: ED HARRIS Time: 12:01am \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Ed's Red (1/3) PREFACE: This is posted automagically, once a month, by the Air 'n Sun BBS, as automated by its sysop, Dave Aronson. If you have any problems with the formatting, distribution, etc., netmail Dave at 1:109/120. (EXCEPT if your problem that is you only get part of it; that is due to ancient software in use by either you or someone between me and you.) Ed is responsible for the content. Now on to the show.... ========================================================================= Date: 01-10-98 19:26 Message #: 249 AirNSun From: Ed Harris Status: PUBLIC To: All Ref #: 0 Subject: Ed's Red Revisited Conf: Firearms (72) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Ed's Red" - - Revisited By C.E., "Ed" Harris Since I mixed my first "Ed's Red" (ER) bore cleaner five years ago, hundreds of users have told me that they find it as effective as commercial products. This cleaner has an action similar to military rifle bore cleaner, such as Mil-C-372B. It is highly effective for removing plastic fouling from shotgun bores, caked carbon in semi-automatic rifles or pistols, or leading in revolvers. "ER" is not a "decoppering" solution for fast removal of heavy jacket fouling, but because is more effective in removal of caked carbon and primer residues than most other cleaners, so metal fouling is reduced when "ER" is used. I researched the subject rather thoroughly and determined there was no technical reason why an effective firearm bore cleaner couldn't be mixed using common hardware store ingredients. The resulting cleaner is safe, effective, inexpensive, provides excellent corrosion protection and adequate residual lubrication. Routine oiling after cleaning is unnecessary except for storage exceeding 1 year, or in harsh environments, such as salt air exposure. The formula is adapted from Hatcher's "Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18," but substitutes equivalent modern materials. Hatcher's recipe called for equal parts of acetone, turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil, and (optionally) 200 grams of anhydrous lanolin per liter into the cleaner. Some discussion of the ingredients in ER is helpful to understand the properties of the cleaner and how it works. Pratts Astral Oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. Today you would ask for "K1" kerosene of the type sold for use in indoor space heaters. An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron III automatic transmission fluid. Prior to 1950 most ATF's were sperm oil based. During WWII sperm oil was mostly unavailable, so highly refined, dewaxed hydrofinished petroleum oils were developed, which had excellent thermal stability. When antioxidants were added to prevent gumming these worked well in precision instruments. With the high demand for automatic transmission autos after WWII, sperm oil was no longer practical to produce ATFs in the needed quantities needed, so the wartime expedients were mass produced. ATFs have been continually improved over the years. The additives contained in Dexron include detergents or other surfactants which are highly suitable for inclusion in an all-purpose cleaner, lubricant and preservative. Hatcher's Frankford Arsenal No. 18 used gum spirits of turpentine, but turpentine is both expensive and also highly flammable, so I chose not to use it. Much safer and more inexpensive are "aliphatic mineral spirits," which are an open-chain organic solvent, rather than the closed-chain, benzene ring structure, common to "aromatics," such as naptha or "lighter fluid." Sometimes called "safety solvent," aliphatic mineral spirits are used for thinning oil based paint, as automotive parts cleaner and is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol". Acetone is included to provide an aggressive, fast-acting solvent for caked smokeless powder residues. Because acetone readily evaporates and the fumes are harmful in high concentrations, it is recommended that it be left out if the cleaner will be used indoors, in soak tanks or in enclosed spaces lacking forced air ventilation. Containers should be kept tightly closed when not in use. ER is still effective without acetone, but not as "fast-acting." "Ed's Red" does not chemically dissolve copper fouling in rifle bores, but it does a better job of removing carbon and primer residue than most othert cleaners. Many users have told me, that frequent and exclusive use of "ER" reduces copper deposits, because it removes the old impacted powder fouling left behind by other cleaners. This reduces the abrasion and adhesion of jacket metal to the bore, leaving a cleaner surface condition which reduces subsequent fouling. Experience indicates that "ER" will actually remove metal fouling in bores if if it left to "soak," for a few days so the surfactants will do the job, when followed by a repeat cleaning. You simply have to be patient. ...continued to part 2... --- Squish/386 v1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-319-0714 Origin needed, apply within (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F4200083 Date: 04/01/98 From: ED HARRIS Time: 12:01am \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Ed's Red (2/3) ...continued from part 1... Addition of lanolin to ER is optional, because the cleaner works perfectly well and gives adequate corrosion protection and lubrication without it. Inclusion of lanolin makes the cleaner easier on the hands, increases its lubricity and film strength and improves corrosion protection if firearms, tools or equipment will be routinely exposed to salt air, water spray, or corrosive urban atmospheres. I recommend the lanolin included if you intend to use the cleaner as a protectant for long term storage or for a "flush" after water cleaning of black powder firearms or those fired with military chlorate primers. This is because lanolin has a great affinity for water and readily emulsifies so that the bore can be wiped of residual moisture, leaving a protective film. If you inspect your guns and wipe them down twice yearly, you can leave out the lanolin and save about $10 per gallon. At current retail prices you can buy all the ingredients to mix ER, without the lanolin for about $12 per gallon. I urge you to mix some yourself. I am confident it will work as well for you as it does for me and hundreds of users who got the "recipe" on the Fidonet Firearms Echo. CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner 1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later. 1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1 1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent. 1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1. (Optional 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, or OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store) MIXING INSTRUCTIONS: Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers are OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will slowly evaporate. Acetone in ER will attack HDPE over time, causing the container to collapse, making a heck of a mess! Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved. I recommend diverting up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix to use as "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining mix. Label and safety warnings follow:. ...continued to part 3... --- Squish/386 v1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-319-0714 Origin needed, apply within (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F4200084 Date: 04/01/98 From: ED HARRIS Time: 12:01am \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Ed's Red (3/3) ...continued from part 2... FIREARM BORE CLEANER CAUTION: FLAMMABLE MIXTURE HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN Contents: petroleum distillates, surfactants, organometallic antioxidants and acetone 1. Flammable mixture, keep away from heat, sparks or flame. 2. FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician immediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with water and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly. 3. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist. It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labelling. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forced air ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or equivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use. INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE: 1. Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is most effective when done while the barrel is still warm from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale on jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore. 2. Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action. 3. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled service rifles, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use. 4. Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for 1 year under average atmospheric conditions. 5. If lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years, even in a humid environment. (For longer storage use Lee Liquid Alox or Cosmolene). "ER" will readily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene. 6. Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes. 7. Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if the bore is cleaned as described. 8. I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed's Red is used exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a flush with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APART whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the corrosive residue out. This "Recipe" has been placed in the public domain, and may be freely distributed provided that it is done so in its entirely with all current revisions, instructions and safety warnings included herein, and that proper attribution is given to the author. Reply To: ed.harris@p3006.F120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Internet) Ed Harris at 1:109/120.3006 (Fidonet) --- Squish/386 v1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-319-0714 Origin needed, apply within (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 161 FIREARMS Ref: F42L3277 Date: 04/02/98 From: MALCOLM MCCLUNG Time: 05:54pm \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: R: 22 Mag Chamber Is there such a thing as a match chamber for the 22 Mag? I know there are tight chambers available for the 22 LR. Related question. I know I've read about someone / someplace that rents reamers but I didn't capture the info. Anyone able to remember? Could you post it? Thanks in advance, Malcolm --- OLX 2.1 TD We are NOT surrounded. We are in a target-rich environmen