--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 155 OLD CARS Ref: E1Y00003 Date: 01/28/97 From: DAVID LEVASSSEUR Time: 07:46am \/To: JEFF GORDON (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Wiring problem Hello Jeff, JG> Adding directionals to the tail lamp circuit complicates the job JG> because the left tail light circuit must be separate from the right JG> tail light circuit so they don't interact at the same time. After looking at my two other 60's cars there are only two wires coming from the front to the rear ending at the tail lights.(both have a single light with dual filament bulbs). So the directional light wire must first go to a relay or switch that is connected to one of the two wires that go rearward as you mention. JG> For each circuit right and left: JG> * One circuit tells when and if the lever is out of the center JG> location. This circuit BREAKS the connection from the tail light JG> switch so the directional circuit below can take control the JG> tail lamp. JG> * A second circuit with a built-in flasher MAKEs (blinks the JG> light) when the lever is out of the center location. The switching must take place at the signal flasher can. ???? JG> That's why there's four or more contacts for each direction in a modern JG> turn signal switch lever. Depending on what you have with your existing JG> add-on turn signal switch lever you may be able to make it work or you JG> might not. For sure, the wiring is a more complex than the single function JG> directional lamps you have now. If I knew the exact circuit you have now JG> including the switch arrangement inside the existing switch lever I could JG> help you more. I might be able to design something which would work. Well I have a 78 chevy el camino steering column (non-column shift type.) and a 72 buick brake pedal assembly that has 4 male prongs of which I am using two of them. It must be switching the brake light function. There are two signal flasher cans with two prongs each on them with a wire to each prong on both cans, these must be the left and right signal switches.(blinkers) I am assuming the wiring must originate at the steering column harness to the flasher cans and then rearward to the single small lights now being used for directionals. (I have not traced them as of yet). So if you are correct there is an element (switching device) missing that the signal wires should be attached to and from that missing switch a wire going rearward that would operate either the tail/directional function or the brake/directional function depending which side of the dual filament is to be used. normally I believe the brightest filament is used for brake light and signal as opposed to the dimmer of the two filaments. Is this accurate. I don't expect you to solve my problem via this forum but any knowledge is certainly appreciated. Sincerely David JG> Jeff JG>___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 JG>--- Maximus 2.02 JG> * Origin: THE FAMILy TREE BBS (1:147/32) --- * OLXWin 1.00b * * Knowledge is Power * --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 155 OLD CARS Ref: E1Y00004 Date: 01/28/97 From: BILL NICHOLS Time: 08:51am \/To: CHARLES BUCHTE (Read 1 times) Subj: Orphan Cars CB>Hello Old car Lovers, CB> Ypsilanti Michigan is having a Orphan Car show June 1 1997 CB> Home of the list Hudson dealership in the USA. Still going strong, huh? I often wonder about him -- glad he's still in operation! CB> Hometown of Preston Tucker Tucker Torpedo. And this of course just BEGS one of my favorite tags!! --- * OLXWin 1.00b * They don't know it, but they just opened Aunt Dora's box. * wcGATE 4.1 = FidoNet: The Right Note! 502-452-1453 Music Oriented BBS --- GEcho/32 1.20/Pro * Origin: Modem Addictus BBS Decatur,GA 404-321-9037 (1:133/1023) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 155 OLD CARS Ref: E1Y00005 Date: 01/29/97 From: MIKE EYRE Time: 12:11am \/To: LORI HARVEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Viper vs. Vette Prosecutor: Dr Doom - Defendant: Lori Harvey - Subject: Viper vs. Vette LH> A few years ago at the Mopar Nationals, they raced a viper against a LH> Vette. The Viper won hands down. And for the second time, the Viper COSTS *TWICE* the money as the Vette! It's not a fair comparison! IF you're comparing price for price, a ZR1 will be perfectly suited to fight the Viper. Mike..;) Mike_Eyre@Juno.com ... "happy easter!! sorry to hear that you were kidnapped.. " -Bryan L. --- DoomMail v1.12 * Origin: -=Empire BBS=- "The magic word is: _Camaro_" (1:141/1221) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 155 OLD CARS Ref: E1Z00000 Date: 01/29/97 From: ELVIS HARGROVE Time: 11:16am \/To: DAVID LEVASSSEUR (Read 1 times) Subj: Wiring problem -> Many of the autos from the 50's 60's and 70's that had a single tail -> light used a dual filament bulb for all three (tail-brake-and signal -> light) functions. I understand what your saying about the complexity I'm aware of that fact, but you are not aware of the reason for the complexity. ALL the functions of the various tail-light turn-signal brake-lights had to go THROUGH the turn signal control switch, causing it to be a very specialized item indeed! Plus, all the systems were not designed the same and switches could not be interchanged easily, even if they fit physically. It certainly CAN be done, and I've done it several times on trailers etc, by using solid state components and circuitry. If you're willing to get into that dark and arcane subject, you can make it all work quite well with only two filaments. (It IS however, more trouble than it's worth, not terribly reliable, and just generally a PAIN in the derrier.) Bulbs are cheap, simple, reliable, and easy to use. I highly reccommend KISS when it comes to automotive systems. -> AAHHH showing your age Elvis with this statement. :-) Well, since I never expected to achieve this advanced age, I'm certainly not ashamed of having done so. I can't say I'm crazy about BEING this old, but then we must consider the alternative! ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 155 OLD CARS Ref: E1Z00001 Date: 01/29/97 From: TOM HARRIS Time: 09:51am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Old Cars What kind of cars do we have and/or drive -- add yours to the list Tom Harris Austin, Tx 1930 Model A Coupe 1930 Model A Tudor 1931 Model A Pickup 1977 Toyoto Pickup Fred Forrest Pataskala, Oh 1948 7 Passenger Packard 1955 Chev 4-dr Bel-Air (plus 4 motorcycles.) Ralph Hawkins Bartlett, Tn 1953 Ford F100 yeah, it's a truck) 1964 Chevy G10 (van) 1968 Mercedes 150S TOM MISEL Canon City, Co 1966 Ford T-Bird Sean Dunbar El Paso, Tx 1980 Ford F-150 XLT Gerry Calhoun Lancaster,CA '57 Imperial Crown '57 Ford 642 (tractor :) '72 International 1310 4X4 '73 Buick Centuriton (two) Convertible 4 door hardtop '77 Chev Monza Mirage (305 V-8) '81 Chev Corvette (359 - 4 speed) '82 Ford LTD wagon '83 Lincoln MK VI 4 doors (two, twins '86 GMC 3500 Crew cab, dually '86 Mercedes 560 SEC '87 Ford Tortoise LX Heywood Hugo Los Angeles 1941 Plymouth Jeff Peck Aloha,Or. 1968 Ford 1969 Ford 3/4 ton Econoline Alex (LeadFoot) London, Ont. Canada 1973 Nova Custom Hatchback 1983 Fullsize Chevy Pick-em-up 1964 Briggs & Stratton push mower (open exhaust!:) Ed Paulsen Seattle, WA 1972 Chev El Camino Jack Hannah Peterborough Ont. 1966 Chevrolet Corvair Canada 1973 Plymouth Satelitte Eric Curtis Big Lake,Mn 70 340 Swinger 72 Charger 73 340 Duster 69 Standard VW Baja Bug Landon Robinson Portland Oregon 1968 Chevy Impala 327 1977 Ford F-250 3/4 Ton. 460 engine. Kowalski Bethlehem, Ct 1978 Mustang II Ghia coupe 1969 Mustang SportsRoof Ian Bortins Santa Barbara, CA 1965 Pontiac Bonneville 2-dr 1986 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Don Sharp Stratford, NJ 1930 Plymouth 4 door sedan Model 30U bernard letourneau canada qubec montreal buick 1955 roadmaster convtible. buick 1955 century 4p ht buick 1969 electra 225 convertible buick 1969 wilcat convertible ( olsmobile 1956 strafire convertible Mike Jones Livermore CA 1978 olds delta 88 JIM MORGAN Decatur,GA 73 Ford E-300 Jean Morissette St-Hubert, Que. 19** Packard !! Ian Bortins Santa Barbara, CA. 1965 Pontiac Bonneville 2-dr 1986 Mercury Grand Marquis LS DONNIE HUTCHINGS 1:159/100) 65 Galaxy ragtop 72 Mercedes 280SE4.5 64 Valiant Jim Tinlin Arroyo Grande, Ca. 1968 RS/SS Camaro Terry Glunz Portland Oregon 1969 Dodge Dart 318 1970 Plymouth Duster 340 had 1941 Dodge half ton 4*4 military pi 1942 Ford Jeep 1969 Sport Fury 440 1972 sattelite John Bernard Orillia,Ont 1969 Volvo 122s 1975 Volvo 164E 1976 Ford f150 (it's sweet!) 1983 Buick Electra Park Avenue 1984 Buick Skylark 1989 Gmc pickup 1995 ford Aerostar Lori Harvey Des Moines Ia '74 Dart Sport IMCA Hobby Stock Ca '74 Dodge Utility Truck "75 Dodge D-100 '78 Dodge D-150 4x4 '84 Plymouth Reliant '84 Mazda GLC '85 Plymouth Voyage SE + 2 car trailers I sure was hopping there would be some Model As out there somewhere. Lets hear from some more of you Tom a.k.a. old shadetree ___ * OFFLINE 1.58 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: The HUB * Austin TX * Centex PCUG * 512-346-1852 (1:382/1201) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 155 OLD CARS Ref: E1Z00002 Date: 01/29/97 From: MICHAEL SHARON Time: 12:44am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Help Greetings, Having trouble with the feeds for the echo. Anyone seeing this message, Please respond. Your response is greatly appreciated, Sincerely, Michael Sharon ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0GY * Origin: Tonys Corner Wildcat! Warren, MI. 99:1/530 (1:120/13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 155 OLD CARS Ref: E1^00000 Date: 01/29/97 From: ALEXANDER BILAN Time: 06:17pm \/To: DAVID LEVASSSEUR (Read 1 times) Subj: Wiring problem You where writing to Jeff; > After looking at my two other 60's cars there are only two wires > coming from the front to the rear ending at the tail lights.(both have > a single light with dual filament bulbs). Correct. One (bright filament) for brake & flasher. Dim for running lamp. However, there should be a ground wire to the lamp housing. Bad grounds cause very strange lighting behaviour. One of the oddest I've seen, was a bad ground causing the trailer lights to blink opposite to what the truck was blinking (truck left, trailer right, and vice versa). For fun, run a temporary ground to your lamp sockets and see if things correct themselves. > The switching must take place at the signal flasher can. ???? In the case of your setup (dual flasher cans yes). The flasher can makes/breaks the contact by use of a simple bimetalic strip. > Well I have a 78 chevy el camino steering column (non-column shift > type.) and a 72 buick brake pedal assembly that has 4 male prongs of > which I am using two of them. It must be switching the brake light > function. > > There are two signal flasher cans with two prongs each on them with a > wire to each prong on both cans, these must be the left and right > signal switches.(blinkers) Have you checker that it is one flasher can per side, or is one the hazard flasher can? Typically the 4 prong brake lamp switch is one set of contacts for the brake light, and the other set to control things like lockup torque converters. But, thats not to say they cannot be used to independantly power each side of the vehicle for flashers. I might suspect you just have a bad turn signal switch assembly. A trip to the wreckers should get you an assembly for next to nothing to try out. You won't even need to thread it into your column to test it, just unplug your current connector and plug in the "new" to try it out. > I am assuming the wiring must originate at the steering column harness > to the flasher cans and then rearward to the single small lights now > being used for directionals. (I have not traced them as of yet). > > So if you are correct there is an element (switching device) missing > that the signal wires should be attached to and from that missing > switch a wire going rearward that would operate either the > tail/directional function or the brake/directional function depending > which side of the dual filament is to be used. Basic workable theory; the brake light gets routed through the signal lever, center posistion bypasses the flasher can and results in constant brake light. Engage the turn signal lever and the brake light is routed through the flasher can causing the lamp to blink. 12volts Brake switch signal switch lamp. ----------XX-------------X---no turn-----------------OOOOOO---- \------------[flasher]/ Turn signal switch used to route through flasher, output flasher wire gets tied back into the wire running to the lamp. To use a single flasher can for both directions, the turn signal switch uses multiple contacts such that it 1) Feeds 12 volts (from brake lamp) to both left and right lamps. (bypass flasher) 2) Switch 12 volts to the flasher when lever engaged. 3) Switch 12 volts on the OUTPUT side of the flasher so that the flasher output is directed to the proper side of the vehicle. To try to create a singl flasher can left/right system try to follow along with the next part. =) To define contact points of the signal switch; Contact 1 = the 12v coming from the brake lamp switch Contact 2 = the input to the flasher can Contact 3 = the output of the flasher can Contact 4 = the wire going to the left brake/signal lamp Contact 5 = the wire going to the right brake/signal lamp For constant left & right brake lamps 1 to 4 1 to 5 For left turn & right on 1 to 2 3 to 4 (flasher to left lamp) 1 to 5 (right on) For right turn & left on 1 to 2 3 to 5 (flasher to right lamp) 1 to 4 (left on) And since hazzards incorporate a different switch, a separate flasher unit is used, utilizing contact 1 feeding it to the hazzard flasher, and the output of the hazzard flasher tied into (but not necessarily at) contact 4 and contact 5---which is why on single lamp sytems the hazzards stop flashing when you put your foot on the brake. (heres one point in favor of the euro system with a SEPARATE turn signal bulb and separate brake bulb) I hope I havn;t added more mud to the pie. =) > normally I believe the brightest filament is used for brake light and > signal as opposed to the dimmer of the two filaments. Is this > accurate. Correct. | AmiQWK 2.7 - S/N 0261 | ... Great! Now if we can just keep it from exploding! --- OLMS 2.60p.a1+ [EPMAP55A] * Origin: Multiboard * 519-660-3574 * Internet * 4GB * (1:2401/0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 155 OLD CARS Ref: E1^00001 Date: 01/29/97 From: IAN BORTINS Time: 12:06pm \/To: LORI HARVEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Vanishing Point LH> No, the new one is not on video that I know of. The movie that I'm referri LH> to was on the fox channel here locally a few weeks ago. Did anyone see LH> "Runaway Car" last night. (1/21) The car looked like a old AMC Maverick. LH> But it had a sunroof in it. I've never seen one with a sunroof. LOL, i saw "Runaway car" It looked like a FORD maverick to me... taht was a pretty funny movie... --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Vortex Nexus - 805.967.4070 (1:206/2734) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 155 OLD CARS Ref: E1^00002 Date: 01/29/97 From: IAN BORTINS Time: 12:17pm \/To: JEAN MORISSETTE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Old Cars list... JM> Hello Packard fans !! I'mmmmm BaaaAAAaaack !! JM> JM> I have done some chating with Packard fans, a while back... JM> The BBS giving me access to OLD CARS echo, closed. JM> The BBS I'm in now, just got OLD CARS !!! Youppppiiiii !!! JM> JM> So, any Packard connoisseur want to exchange with a JM> Packard lover again ?? One of my friends' dad's is selling his 193X Packard.. it's got an AAA-OOOOOGAHH Horn and the fattest white walls i've ever seen.. asking $19,500 --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Vortex Nexus - 805.967.4070 (1:206/2734)